Suspension rabbit hole

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Seems to me this is brilliant but we now need the diagnosis from the signs and symptoms .
With a 2018 bike a lot of that is easy as Ducati have developed the bike through the 2020 improvements and now the 23r stuff

If I owned a 2018 I would be straight away changing the rocker links to 135 or even links and rocker to the flat rate one
I would even look at changing the SA pivot to either adjustable R or even the 22base fixed position as this is the sweet spot.

110 trail is imho too much I base that on the fact toseland ran it on the factory race bikes and the consensus was it was extreme .

Does the motospec work like a car geometry machine where you can put it what the vehicle is being used for move the geometry and it’ll turn green ?
 
andyb said:
Seems to me this is brilliant but we now need the diagnosis from the signs and symptoms .
With a 2018 bike a lot of that is easy as Ducati have developed the bike through the 2020 improvements and now the 23r stuff

If I owned a 2018 I would be straight away changing the rocker links to 135 or even links and rocker to the flat rate one
I would even look at changing the SA pivot to either adjustable R or even the 22base fixed position as this is the sweet spot.

110 trail is imho too much I base that on the fact toseland ran it on the factory race bikes and the consensus was it was extreme .

Does the motospec work like a car geometry machine where you can put it what the vehicle is being used for move the geometry and it’ll turn green ?
Click to expand...

No it's just a dataset, the bike is measured then geometry put into the software and from there you move the data around for your setup, it will also import data files from motec and marelli with suspension potentiometer readings so you can see measurements in a more detailed way
 
I had installed the Forsaken's linear link, just measured the links to be 145mm. Stock were 140mm

I had measured a reference point for fork height before I changed the clamps. They are = to being flush with the stock clamps (yoke) . Flush with the stock clamps (30mm) gave me 104mm trail, 28mm is giving me 110mm. Keep in mind that the 28mm offset brings the front wheel under the bike.
I expected it to dramatically change the feel, but so far it is a very positive change to my set up.
 
andyb said:
Seems to me this is brilliant but we now need the diagnosis from the signs and symptoms .
With a 2018 bike a lot of that is easy as Ducati have developed the bike through the 2020 improvements and now the 23r stuff

If I owned a 2018 I would be straight away changing the rocker links to 135 or even links and rocker to the flat rate one
I would even look at changing the SA pivot to either adjustable R or even the 22base fixed position as this is the sweet spot.

110 trail is imho too much I base that on the fact toseland ran it on the factory race bikes and the consensus was it was extreme .

Does the motospec work like a car geometry machine where you can put it what the vehicle is being used for move the geometry and it’ll turn green ?
Click to expand...

How do you modify a 2018 bike SA pivot to a fixed 2022 ? I probably wont change anymore, just need to fine tune.
 
Calderara di Reno said:
I made a tool from a straightedge and a square bolted together on a slot and locates in the axle . Difficult to explain , but mimicks the lines drawn vertically through the axle and parallel through the steering tube. To the floor where you can get that measurement. Rake doesnt change because of the offset.
I uploaded the wrong photo and cant make it go away , our wine by the way !
Click to expand...

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Very cool!
 
Somewhere along here you made a comment about instability during breaking. I wonder if that is not a weight transfer issue. The front feels unstable when the rears in the air.
 
baggerman said:
Somewhere along here you made a comment about instability during breaking. I wonder if that is not a weight transfer issue. The front feels unstable when the rears in the air.
Click to expand...

My local track, Symmons Plains, has a straight coming from a tight chicane finishing at 245kph in 5th into a 35kph hairpin then onto another long straight. Huge braking demand for any rider. So i guess i'm looking for more braking stability rather than seeing it as being unstable. Also looking for less wheelie by geometry on this track. I think I'm getting away with all of that trail because the V4 has that counter rotating crank. I noticed a huge difference coming off my 1299.
 
Calderara di Reno said:
My local track, Symmons Plains, has a straight coming from a tight chicane finishing at 245kph in 5th into a 35kph hairpin then onto another long straight. Huge braking demand for any rider. So i guess i'm looking for more braking stability rather than seeing it as being unstable. Also looking for less wheelie by geometry on this track. I think I'm getting away with all of that trail because the V4 has that counter rotating crank. I noticed a huge difference coming off my 1299.
Click to expand...

To keep the front end down requires more anti-squat. Raise the rear or move the pivot. Use the search function somewhere there's a really good discussion on swingarm pivot changes vs ride height changes. Taught me some stuff. Maybe it doesn't ride wide on the drive due to the TC setting.
 
baggerman said:
To keep the front end down requires more anti-squat. Raise the rear or move the pivot. Use the search function somewhere there's a really good discussion on swingarm pivot changes vs ride height changes. Taught me some stuff. Maybe it doesn't ride wide on the drive due to the TC setting.
Click to expand...

I’m confused - why are we raising the rear to minimize wheelie when MotoGP are dropping the rear to do the same?
 
If you can't move the pivot to increase anti-squat then you raise the rear. It's a geometry thing. I think what the GP bikes are doing is adding preload by forcing the rear down. Think drag bike.
 
baggerman said:
If you can't move the pivot to increase anti-squat then you raise the rear. It's a geometry thing. I think what the GP bikes are doing is adding preload by forcing the rear down. Think drag bike.
Click to expand...

Wouldn't adding preload move the rear up?

Rear ride height devices are basically a hydraulic/pneumatic damper in place of the rear shock linkage as explained here
 
Alkhater said:
Wouldn't adding preload move the rear up?

Rear ride height devices are basically a hydraulic/pneumatic damper in place of the rear shock linkage as explained here
Click to expand...


Think drag bike. You're strapping the spring down (collapsing the rear and stopping weight transfer). I couldn't open your link. I'll look for it. Thanks.
 
craig bush said:
I’m confused - why are we raising the rear to minimize wheelie when MotoGP are dropping the rear to do the same?
Click to expand...

Think of anti-squat as a triangle where the front and rear sprockets make up the base and the swingarm pivot is the top point. My understanding is that the more “leverage” you can apply to the the rear wheel will increase anti-squat. So increase gear ratios, increasing swingarm pivot height, increasing swingarm length, and increasing preload will get you more “leverage” on the system.

For GP, they’re reducing ride height for weight transfer and decreasing CG to increase traction and rear drive. I’d be willing to bet that anti-squat geometry remains the same due to some crazy complex parallelogram swingarm linkage
 
Alkhater said:
Wouldn't adding preload move the rear up?

Rear ride height devices are basically a hydraulic/pneumatic damper in place of the rear shock linkage as explained here
Click to expand...


Interesting video. Makes a lot of sense. Thanks.

Ironically, when I first opened YouTube, a video of @RickD996 racing a Pit Bike!! Looked like great fun.
 
KarlKani said:
What track were you at? PI seems like such a unique fast and flowing track that it would necessitate its own settings
Click to expand...

Hi Karl, yes PI has its own unique settings for sure. No really hard braking points at all , except T4 after Stoner corner. Most guys soften the front, to keep the front tire loaded and up to temperature, then the rear needs support because of the G forces and the need to get on the gas hard exiting . This is what makes Phillip Island so exciting.
 
Calderara di Reno said:
View attachment 52183
He didnt stay behind for long !
Click to expand...

Just talking Phillip Island for a bit, this is Siberia, which exits onto the notorious Hay Shed then up to Lukey Heights. Above or behind you can see exit of T2 down to Stoner corner T3 , then into Honda T4.
Awesome when the weather is kind and the geese stay on the grass!!!!!
 

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