Suspension rabbit hole

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Bruce Wayne said:
No it's just a dataset, the bike is measured then geometry put into the software and from there you move the data around for your setup, it will also import data files from motec and marelli with suspension potentiometer readings so you can see measurements in a more detailed way
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Hi Bruce is it possible for you to establish if the 2023 R std settings are in the software,
and could I forward my numbers to you to add in as a comparison.....please?
 
Ok Phillip Island done, Moto GP weather all over again. Two days back to back and the first day constant rain and 30-50kph winds depending where on track. Its bloody scary and appreciate the GP cancelling the race this year. I fronted up in the afternoon for the last 3 sessions on wets on my 1299, last session was fun but started to tear up the rear with a drying track
Next day I was keen to get the V4 sorted. Track dry but not grippy and cold. As my pace picked up the rabbit hole was there and in I went, ,, again! There were a few guys circulating faster in fast group but was mostly at the pointy end, but having the same issues that cost me confidence and time.
Day home in the shed and researching here and another forum and also having measured a couple of well set up V4's after the day finished, I have concluded where it needs changing.
First mistake was installing the FGR cartridge kit and not realising there was now an extra 15mm of fork length. Me setting the forks at the same measure through the clamps as before gave me a HD chopper. Luckily I haven't dicked around with the rear except now I have a linear link from Forsaken Motorsports.
So pulled the forks up through the clamps until I hit 24.5 degrees, amazingly I now have 15mm of fork above my top clamp. Feeling good about the numbers so far :) The adjustable offsets (I'm running 28mm) has given me 105mm trail , now presuming every 2mm offset gives 5mm of trail increase. I dont know what more can be adjusted on the front going forward except a tweak here and there with C and R.
The rear , I'm waiting for Ettiene from Forsaken Motorsport to come back to me why the dog bones supplied with the linear rocker are longer than stock by 5mm (this could lower the bike unless it interacts with the triangulation of the linear rocker? Didn't measure prior to installing the new link :( , see a pattern happening here ! From what I've read, the 2018 benefits from a raise in height bringing the centre pivot up a few mm's ? This could be achieved by lengthening the shock clevis or using a set of adjustable dog bones ?


1701489095283.pngAny thoughts ?
 
SuperDomestique said:
Did you ride the bike after you dropped the forks?

Consider replacing the stock rear linkage? Does anyone here run the linear link and feel it makes a big difference?
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I would of though an expert like you would have all the experience in the world of replacing the rear linkage and or using the linear one......you certainly come across as someone who has all this knowledge and experience, is that wrong?



To the OP compare the linear rocker to your std one, the three holes are in different places. You cannot just compare the length of the dog bones.
secondly a 2018 v4 set up is a mile away from where the 22+ has ended up and for the better!

There is no reason why you couldn't change to a 22+ SA pivot set up, get a 22+ linear rocker and tie rods from forsaken, and adjust the length of the rear shock.
With your 130 travel forks you could then start at the baseline set up of a 23R.
 
Oh man the forks were 0.600 inch long. Well at least the weaving at speed should be fixed. When the set-up is fixed it going to be way easier to ride and way faster. Minimum 3 seconds a lap right from the start.
 
andyb said:
I would of though an expert like you would have all the experience in the world of replacing the rear linkage and or using the linear one......you certainly come across as someone who has all this knowledge and experience, is that wrong?



To the OP compare the linear rocker to your std one, the three holes are in different places. You cannot just compare the length of the dog bones.
secondly a 2018 v4 set up is a mile away from where the 22+ has ended up and for the better!

There is no reason why you couldn't change to a 22+ SA pivot set up, get a 22+ linear rocker and tie rods from forsaken, and adjust the length of the rear shock.
With your 130 travel forks you could then start at the baseline set up of a 23R.
Click to expand...

Andy’s ungynearing acumen is short on maths… 2018 PV4 stock fork length is 120 mm. The FKR kit adds 15 mm. I’m getting 135 mm as total fork length. Again Andy isn’t good with nuance

If I was CdR I’d get the forks in the proper position in the triples so that you’re back to stock 24.5 rake and trail, revert back to the stock rear link, and test. From what I’ve read linear link on the Pani can add more problems than solutions.

Andy’s method of chuck everything all at once will just confuse you more.
 
SuperDomestique said:
Andy’s ungynearing acumen is short on maths… 2018 PV4 stock fork length is 120 mm. The FKR kit adds 15 mm. I’m getting 135 mm as total fork length. Again Andy isn’t good with nuance

If I was CdR I’d get the forks in the proper position in the triples so that you’re back to stock 24.5 rake and trail, revert back to the stock rear link, and test. From what I’ve read linear link on the Pani can add more problems than solutions.

Andy’s method of chuck everything all at once will just confuse you more.
Click to expand...

I think going back to close to the stock set up is exactly right. Start again. You're leaving the trail at 105 I assume? Get as close to the stock set up then you can evaluate the offset changes to see if it actually helps. You may be happier closer to the stock trail. That bike has the earlier lower SA pivot right? Probably needs some more anti-squat. I drag raced for years and the one thing that it does is pound into your head one change at a time. So one change at a time. It's easy to get lost otherwise.
 
If for one moment you stopped trying to be a clever .... you might see what every one else sees that you are not very clever at all.

the 2023 V4R front fork travel is now 130 up from 120 then 125...... id go with what ducati are doing as a base....

fook all to do with fork length the travel is just part of the fork length.... as if the fork length was 135mm they would be pretty short forks no wonder he has too much trail!!
 
Guys read my last post more carefully, I have the front now set up as close to stock as possible except I’m persevering with the offset of 28mm. I have installed and ridden with the linear rear link , absolutely positive result there. If I can set my rear height I will be close to a good base to work from . The 2018 Forsaken link came with 145mm dog bones which are 5mm longer than stock. Not sure why they are longer as this would lower the bike unless it is because of the triangulation of their rocker ?
 
andyb said:
If for one moment you stopped trying to be a clever .... you might see what every one else sees that you are not very clever at all.

the 2023 V4R front fork travel is now 130 up from 120 then 125...... id go with what ducati are doing as a base....

fook all to do with fork length the travel is just part of the fork length.... as if the fork length was 135mm they would be pretty short forks no wonder he has too much trail!!
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CdR, What fork tubes are you using? The stock ones or longer Ohlins? I was under the impression from the above post CdR is using stock tubes and put in an FGR cartridge kit. If that’s the case then the fork length came from the increase in fork travel and not longer tubes.

Who’s being pedantic now? I misspoke-fork travel (not length) is 135 not 130 if CdR is saying that the cartridge kit increase travel 15 mm from stock 18 PV4 forks.

But Andy is also incorrect that the stock 23 V4R fork travel is 130. It is 125 per the specs online and the service manual.
 

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Calderara di Reno said:
Guys read my last post more carefully, I have the front now set up as close to stock as possible except I’m persevering with the offset of 28mm. I have installed and ridden with the linear rear link , absolutely positive result there. If I can set my rear height I will be close to a good base to work from . The 2018 Forsaken link came with 145mm dog bones which are 5mm longer than stock. Not sure why they are longer as this would lower the bike unless it is because of the triangulation of their rocker ?
Click to expand...

Erm then just get a ride height gauge and set up the ride height to what you want. Don’t worry about the dog bones being longer. They’re probably longer for the linkage geometry to make the rate linear.
 
First mistake was installing the FKR cartridge kit and not realising there was now an extra 15mm of TOTAL fork length. Me setting the forks at the same measure through the clamps as before
 
SuperDomestique said:
Did you ride the bike after you dropped the forks?

Consider replacing the stock rear linkage? Does anyone here run the linear link and feel it makes a big difference?
Click to expand...

No I havent tried the bike since resetting the front to settings written above. The Forsaken link I have riddentwice and it is defineatly an improvement , very noticeable. The shock has more movement through its stroke with out the harshness towards the end of its travel. Also the important thing is the rebound setting only needs to control that linear force on return. Not explained well but you should get my drift.
 
Calderara di Reno said:
Ill have to get back to you on that, I measured a stock Showa fork fully extended and mine was actually 20mm longer extended. I'm sure the fully bottomed out is the same for both. Stand to be corrected on that.
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I measured my 22 PV4S forks to have 124 mm from full extension to full compression which is inline with the stated specs. There was some dead space of like 2-5 mm when bottomed out. It may change depending on what internals you have in the forks.

If you installed the cartridge kit into stock Showa forks the only way fork length could change is because fork travel increased. FGR 250 forks have a stated for travel of 130 mm FWIW. The only way to know how much travel you have pull out the spring and measure full extend and compressed. It would be good to know exactly how much they’ve increased so that you can set them to the stock height to get stock rake angle
 
Calderara di Reno said:
FKR 115 kit
Fork stroke 125mm
Fork length 748mm
Fork bump from foot 17mm
oil level without springs 240mm
Click to expand...

So your stroke is 5 mm more than stock Showa. So I would have 5-10 mm more fork above the top triple than stock and that should get you close to stock rake.

Does anyone have the stock Showa length? I’m seeing the Showa BPF to allegedly be 720 mm
 

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