Suspension rabbit hole

SuperDomestique said:

So your stroke is 5 mm more than stock Showa. So I would have 5-10 mm more fork above the top triple than stock and that should get you close to stock rake.

Does anyone have the stock Showa length? I’m seeing the Showa BPF to allegedly be 720 mm

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Mine are upside down draining the fluid I'll screw the cap on and measure a leg.

740 mm centerline of axle to the flat on the nut at the edge of the octagon.

Mine is 748mm centre of axle to top of the outer tube , ie under the cap. Is your bike an '18 ?

Now I'm keen to try the "R" swing arm pivot in my 2018

It's a 21. Weird. Get the turn in sorted before messing with the SA pivot. If the bike gets front light on the drive it needs anti squat which you can get thru raising the rear. Raising the pivot gets you anti squat without moving the CG up like raising the rear does but you may like the CG up a little.

baggerman said:

It's a 21. Weird. Get the turn in sorted before messing with the SA pivot. If the bike gets front light on the drive it needs anti squat which you can get thru raising the rear. Raising the pivot gets you anti squat without moving the CG up like raising the rear does but you may like the CG up a little.

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Good recommendation .

Calderara di Reno said:

Mine is 748mm centre of axle to top of the outer tube , ie under the cap. Is your bike an '18 ?

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So your forks increased by 8 mm. Also remember that you can increase sag by a little with the extra 5 mm travel. I was recommended 25-30 mm static sag and 42 mm rider sag for my NPX forks (125 mm travel).

@cl955 did change his pivot on his bike so he’d be best to offer input on that

SuperDomestique said:

So your forks increased by 8 mm. Also remember that you can increase sag by a little with the extra 5 mm travel. I was recommended 25-30 mm static sag and 42 mm rider sag for my NPX forks (125 mm travel).

@cl955 did change his pivot on his bike so he’d be best to offer input on that

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Thanks, I did grab a bit more sag in the front. Phillip Island needs softer settings and more weight on the front , my local the opposite.

SuperDomestique said:

@cl955 did change his pivot on his bike so he’d be best to offer input on that

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Yes, and am pleased with the results on my 2020 bike (also running the Forsaken Linkage).

It seems there are 2 ways to do this.
1) buy the 2019 V4R eccentrics and engine inserts
2) buy the 22/23 side plates and engine inserts

The problem with (1) is that the eccentrics can rotate unless you drill and tap the original side plates to take the locating screw. The V4R side plates do not fit the early bikes. I did the drilling and tapping after experiencing the eccentrics moving, but drilling the original plates is not as aesthetically pleasing as the V4R plates as there is less metal and shoulder like the V4R has. You can run the Spider rear set side plates, but they are quite expensive and do not have provision for a side stand (other threads have covered opinions on side stands for track bikes, and I am in the clumsy camp of not trusting myself not to drop it )

If I had my time again, I would go with option 2 I think. The results are pretty similar, and I don't think I will be experimenting further - the SAP is in the highest position available to me - it's approx 4 mm higher than standard (measured). I believe the new V4R can go even higher if desired.. it's all really confusing -1 and +3 markings etc.

Qualitatively, the rear end feels very good, but at my level, it didn't feel bad beforehand. Some people have said it improves braking - I haven't felt that however. Recent trips (x2) to Portimao in the autumn this year have shown a material improvement in lap times, but this is mainly down to working out the circuit and fairly poor baseline time to improve against. But the bike feels good.

I have just got the forks (FGRT) back from having the 130 mm travel modification done, so will be in the world of set up pain soon, ready for 2024.

Thanks for writing that up. Do the R ‘23 side plates fit the 2018 ?

SuperDomestique said:

So your stroke is 5 mm more than stock Showa. So I would have 5-10 mm more fork above the top triple than stock and that should get you close to stock rake.

Does anyone have the stock Showa length? I’m seeing the Showa BPF to allegedly be 720 mm

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So not 135 then.....like a multistrada or Hypermotard type of build

where are you seeing.....on the internet?

SuperDomestique said:

Andy’s ungynearing acumen is short on maths… 2018 PV4 stock fork length is 120 mm. The FKR kit adds 15 mm. I’m getting 135 mm as total fork length. Again Andy isn’t good with nuance

If I was CdR I’d get the forks in the proper position in the triples so that you’re back to stock 24.5 rake and trail, revert back to the stock rear link, and test. From what I’ve read linear link on the Pani can add more problems than solutions.

Andy’s method of chuck everything all at once will just confuse you more.

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SuperDomestique said:

CdR, What fork tubes are you using? The stock ones or longer Ohlins? I was under the impression from the above post CdR is using stock tubes and put in an FGR cartridge kit. If that’s the case then the fork length came from the increase in fork travel and not longer tubes.

Who’s being pedantic now? I misspoke-fork travel (not length) is 135 not 130 if CdR is saying that the cartridge kit increase travel 15 mm from stock 18 PV4 forks.

But Andy is also incorrect that the stock 23 V4R fork travel is 130. It is 125 per the specs online and the service manual.

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Calderara di Reno said:

First mistake was installing the FKR cartridge kit and not realising there was now an extra 15mm of TOTAL fork length. Me setting the forks at the same measure through the clamps as before

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Calderara di Reno said:

FKR 115 kit
Fork stroke 125mm
Fork length 748mm
Fork bump from foot 17mm
oil level without springs 240mm

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SD, I believe the words you are looking for are "sorry, I read it on the internet!"

Calderara di Reno said:

Thanks for writing that up. Do the R ‘23 side plates fit the 2018 ?

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I haven't tried, but I suspect not. The 19 R plates are very close, but frustratingly, there is no easy way to adapt them. Like an idiot, I bought them, so reluctant to repeat that mistake with the 23 plates.

Any body know if the Spider rearsets with side plates fit 2018 bikes ? They have two holes drilled where they mount to the frame, so suspecting they may.

cl955 said:

I haven't tried, but I suspect not. The 19 R plates are very close, but frustratingly, there is no easy way to adapt them. Like an idiot, I bought them, so reluctant to repeat that mistake with the 23 plates.

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Would you be able to take a photo how you did the location pin please ?

Calderara di Reno said:

Any body know if the Spider rearsets with side plates fit 2018 bikes ? They have two holes drilled where they mount to the frame, so suspecting they may.
View attachment 52307

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They are supposed to, yes

Calderara di Reno said:

Would you be able to take a photo how you did the location pin please ?

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Slightly embarrassed to post these as it's a bit of a bodge.... the Ducati bolts with the taper from the R are slightly too long... if you wind them in all the way, the hole in the eccentric damages the thread and you can't get them out, without damaging the thread in the alloy plate...
So I used a washer and a spring washer which is a bit ...., I know.
Once I get my rear shock back in (just been serviced, but I have to support the bike using the footpegs), I will take the plates to a local shop that does alloy welding and get them to build up a boss for 3mm or so on the plate - this will be a lot neater.

The holes that need to be drilled are not at 3 o'clock and 9 o'clock. They are a fraction lower to get the eccentrics marker at 12 o'clock if that makes sense.

cl955 said:

Slightly embarrassed to post these as it's a bit of a bodge.... the Ducati bolts with the taper from the R are slightly too long... if you wind them in all the way, the hole in the eccentric damages the thread and you can't get them out, without damaging the thread in the alloy plate...
So I used a washer and a spring washer which is a bit ...., I know.
Once I get my rear shock back in (just been serviced, but I have to support the bike using the footpegs), I will take the plates to a local shop that does alloy welding and get them to build up a boss for 3mm or so on the plate - this will be a lot neater.

The holes that need to be drilled are not at 3 o'clock and 9 o'clock. They are a fraction lower to get the eccentrics marker at 12 o'clock if that makes sense.

Click to expand...

Calderara di Reno said:

Any body know if the Spider rearsets with side plates fit 2018 bikes ? They have two holes drilled where they mount to the frame, so suspecting they may.
View attachment 52307

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I use these on my 22 base ... the two different holes in the mounting plate work for both early and later SA positions. they also worked on my previous 2020 base bike with the different hole

andyb said:

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Definitely a winter programme priority.