Track Day and some questions

Starting to feel comfortable enough on the bike to start working on specific track sectors etc, wasn’t trying to improve my times, just wanted to use the day to work on one specific thing each section.

I still set a PR though.

That was my 3rd day at that track and maybe my 5th or 6th full track day total, my lap times are still slow, but they are 25 seconds faster than they were 2 track days ago. More importantly I’m starting to see the track and where I can grab back big chunks of time, just need more street time.

I also took the old school analog Gixxer race bike out for a session…that bike is dialed in and felt incredibly good on the handling, but the brakes almost killed me lol…went off on almost every lap lol. The Ducati brakes are perfect, progressive in initial bite then quickly ramps to huge stopping power, the race prepped Gixxer just the opposite, hard initial bite then not nearly the stopping power of the Duke’s braking system.

On Rick’s advice I lowered the front by about 6 mm and that made the Ducati handle a lot better and got rid of the front end ‘moving side to side’ unstable feeling when accelerating hard above 110 mph. Thanks Rick!

Time to do the suspension though, that red arrow in one of the pics is pointing to a black zip tie that’s pushed all the way to the bottom of the shock tube from hard braking. At that track there are some sections where you are braking from 150 mph to 65 mph in a short brake zone, and I’m pushing it enough that I’m bottoming out.

Time fir the FKR inserts in the front and the GP shock in the rear.

And a question, are there any tell tail signs I should look for when the clutch needs to be replaced?

It’s definitely feeling a bit different.

What clutch do you guys recommend for mostly track duty with an occasional short little romp on public roads?

For no other reasons than I like them, they perform well, and that they are a Ducati Technical Partner, I use STM. Hung out with them at WDW2022, and their support was much better than I’ve seen from other brands.

Steven31371 said:

Starting to feel comfortable enough on the bike to start working on specific track sectors etc, wasn’t trying to improve my times, just wanted to use the day to work on one specific thing each section.

I still set a PR though.

That was my 3rd day at that track and maybe my 5th or 6th full track day total, my lap times are still slow, but they are 25 seconds faster than they were 2 track days ago. More importantly I’m starting to see the track and where I can grab back big chunks of time, just need more street time.View attachment 44289View attachment 44290View attachment 44294View attachment 44295View attachment 44300

I also took the old school analog Gixxer race bike out for a session…that bike is dialed in and felt incredibly good on the handling, but the brakes almost killed me lol…went off on almost every lap lol. The Ducati brakes are perfect, progressive in initial bite then quickly ramps to huge stopping power, the race prepped Gixxer just the opposite, hard initial bite then not nearly the stopping power of the Duke’s braking system.

On Rick’s advice I lowered the front by about 6 mm and that made the Ducati handle a lot better and got rid of the front end ‘moving side to side’ unstable feeling when accelerating hard above 110 mph. Thanks Rick!

Time to do the suspension though, that red arrow in one of the pics is pointing to a black zip tie that’s pushed all the way to the bottom of the shock tube from hard braking. At that track there are some sections where you are braking from 150 mph to 65 mph in a short brake zone, and I’m pushing it enough that I’m bottoming out.

Time fir the FKR inserts in the front and the GP shock in the rear.

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Your bike looks amazing, and I love the go fast bits! 25 seconds is no joke… congrats! And you’re only going to get faster…

I thought you changed fork springs already. Are you going to ditch DES altogether?

Steven31371 said:

Starting to feel comfortable enough on the bike to start working on specific track sectors etc, wasn’t trying to improve my times, just wanted to use the day to work on one specific thing each section.

I still set a PR though.

That was my 3rd day at that track and maybe my 5th or 6th full track day total, my lap times are still slow, but they are 25 seconds faster than they were 2 track days ago. More importantly I’m starting to see the track and where I can grab back big chunks of time, just need more street time.View attachment 44289View attachment 44290View attachment 44291View attachment 44292View attachment 44293View attachment 44294View attachment 44295View attachment 44300

I also took the old school analog Gixxer race bike out for a session…that bike is dialed in and felt incredibly good on the handling, but the brakes almost killed me lol…went off on almost every lap lol. The Ducati brakes are perfect, progressive in initial bite then quickly ramps to huge stopping power, the race prepped Gixxer just the opposite, hard initial bite then not nearly the stopping power of the Duke’s braking system.

On Rick’s advice I lowered the front by about 6 mm and that made the Ducati handle a lot better and got rid of the front end ‘moving side to side’ unstable feeling when accelerating hard above 110 mph. Thanks Rick!

Time to do the suspension though, that red arrow in one of the pics is pointing to a black zip tie that’s pushed all the way to the bottom of the shock tube from hard braking. At that track there are some sections where you are braking from 150 mph to 65 mph in a short brake zone, and I’m pushing it enough that I’m bottoming out.

Time fir the FKR inserts in the front and the GP shock in the rear.

Click to expand...

Reduce the fork air gap, by 10mm (approx 10ml of fork fluid), this will give you a bit more support at the end of the fork travel.

Also, this may sound counterintuitive, reduce your shock length too. From my experience, these bikes work best when they are low. I've not experienced that on another bike...

bp_SFV4 said:

I thought you changed fork springs already. Are you going to ditch DES altogether?

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No I ordered them with that guy who ghosted us but obviously they never came lol

Didn’t re-order them because I wanted some more track days 1st, I simply want loading the suspension enough to warrant the upgrade until now

RickD996 said:

Reduce the fork air gap, by 10mm (approx 10ml of fork fluid), this will give you a bit more support at the end of the fork travel.

Also, this may sound counterintuitive, reduce your shock length too. From my experience, these bikes work best when they are low. I've not experienced that on another bike...

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Ya know I was going to talk to the shop doing my suspension about lowering the whole bike a bit, keep the same geometry front to back but the whole thing a bit lower using the rear hub eccentric and rear shock length eccentric then dropping the front proportionally.

Might seem strange that a 6’3” 240 pound guy would feel better on a lower bike but I do.

Nice work. I'll share you a tip I've been working on too, just going by your photos. I hope you don't mind my unsolicited advice. Just rooting for your progress.
You won't believe how much getting your body positioning right helps everything. One thing that will knock you up a few notches on the confidence chart is getting your head more forward, and your chest down lower. When you're able to curl up in that cockpit a little more with your forearms horizontal, you'll notice, all of the sudden you're riding it like it was designed to be ridden and it's all easier. Up right is brutal on your neck and core. The wind is insanity, the stopping and hard acceleration is going to force your to rely on muscle strength. Get down out of the wind, stick you face out in front and look where you want to go, and bam, you do laps that aren't so exhausting.
Good trick: get on your bike on its track stands in your garage and try it. Your riding gear plays a huge roll in allowing ideal riding positions or not. Try it with shorts and a Tshirt, then try it in full gear, helmet too, so you know what's limiting your movements if anything. Make a list, what's working and what's not? What's conflicting, what's too tight, what's not allowing you to see well in that position?
If your helmet has a smaller field of view, or it's field of view is more upright, it'll be really hard to see with your head down in a tuck. See example image.
The AGV Pista GP RR, for example, has a huge field of view and is made to have your nose pointed at the ground and still be able see horizontally. My previous helmet I could never see in a good riding position. Dumb stuff like that can keep you stuck for no reason.
Another thing that no one talks about much are gloves. Can you move your hands everywhere they need to go or are your suit and your gloves conflicting? To be able to lean off to the side, you have to move your hands and grip the bars at a different angle so you can stick your elbow out. If your gloves are too tight on your sleeves you can't, so you can't lean off your bike much.
These are stupid little things that make a huge difference in riding ability.

Vbreeze said:

. The wind is insanity,

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Try riding the Streetfighter on a GP track… wind resistance becomes your number one priority. You also hate life lol.

But agreed on the riding form and position. It’s now the trend to sit back as far as possible and for good reason. You ride on the back wheel, that’s because contrary to what most people think more time is made during acceleration than braking. Of course you can make a lot of time on the brakes but even then… the lower and more rearward you are the harder you can break.

I’m inclined to think that is the reason they lowered the rear portion of the seat on the ‘22’s. A lower rear subframe might be called for even.

In any case… you see it in riding styles across MotoGP and SBK. You sit back, tuck and connect with the bike rather than be in the middle of the two wheels and wrestle them both.

Ride the back and direct the front!

Think the back wheel is your ... hole… the front wheel is your hands. Your set!

Steven31371 said:

And a question, are there any tell tail signs I should look for when the clutch needs to be replaced?

It’s definitely feeling a bit different.

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What's it feel like? What's different?
Mine was going a bit mushy and also sometimes it would grab and sound really bad in 1st.
Sometimes it's just air in the line that needs bleeding. Pretty common.
But this summer my clutch reservoir pump that wasn't making any pressure. Same symptoms, replaced under warranty.

At 6'-3" I can't possibly get low enough on the bike to get a proper tuck without my butt being all the way back. Same with body position in general. Butt all the way back and half cheek off.

Getting a higher seat helped some, as did tank grips.

I've been practicing setting up my lower body position with as little disturbance to the bike as I can manage.

I also watched a Champ school video in which they said when coming down a straight setup your bottom half, half a cheek off and all the way back BEFORE popping up and getting on the brakes and downshifting. I've been working on that too.

bp_SFV4 said:

At 6'-3" I can't possibly get low enough on the bike to get a proper tuck without my butt being all the way back. Same with body position in general. Butt all the way back and half cheek off.

Getting a higher seat helped some, as did tank grips.

I've been practicing setting up my lower body position with as little disturbance to the bike as I can manage.

I also watched a Champ school video in which they said when coming down a straight setup your bottom half, half a cheek off and all the way back BEFORE popping up and getting on the brakes and downshifting. I've been working on that too.

Click to expand...

Absolutely. The first thing you must do when approaching a corner...body position.
Sometimes, if you're exiting a corner, that is followed by a corner turning in the same direction, it's not worth moving your body back to the centre of the bike, between the corners.

My .02 cents

Stop ridding both bikes on a trackday

Jumping from one bike to another just makes you ride both bikes at 80%, you spend more time learning the bike, than your riding tecnique

Concentrate on just one bike, it will help you improve more

Alkhater said:

Try riding the Streetfighter on a GP track… wind resistance becomes your number one priority. You also hate life lol.

But agreed on the riding form and position. It’s now the trend to sit back as far as possible and for good reason. You ride on the back wheel, that’s because contrary to what most people think more time is made during acceleration than braking. Of course you can make a lot of time on the brakes but even then… the lower and more rearward you are the harder you can break.

I’m inclined to think that is the reason they lowered the rear portion of the seat on the ‘22’s. A lower rear subframe might be called for even.

In any case… you see it in riding styles across MotoGP and SBK. You sit back, tuck and connect with the bike rather than be in the middle of the two wheels and wrestle them both.

Ride the back and direct the front!

Click to expand...

Nah. There’s more time to be made up on the brakes than acceleration. Mastering trail braking is more important than twisting the throttle full stop. The seat was flattened and tank re-contoured to help with ergonomics with braking.

RODOLFO said:

My .02 cents

Stop ridding both bikes on a trackday

Jumping from one bike to another just makes you ride both bikes at 80%, you spend more time learning the bike, than your riding tecnique

Concentrate on just one bike, it will help you improve more

Click to expand...

100% agree…won’t be doing that again lol

The next few days at that track I’m going to spend half a day just getting one section right, when that section is easy move to another to focus on…did that second half of the last track day and chicane that I was taking at 70 mph I got to taking at 85 mph….fastest guys there do at at 100 mph

SuperDomestique said:

Nah. There’s more time to be made up on the brakes than acceleration. Mastering trail braking is more important than twisting the throttle full stop. The seat was flattened and tank re-contoured to help with ergonomics with braking.

View attachment 44330

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Confident post… I’ll give you that.

Is it true? Well no it isn’t!

RickD996 said:

Absolutely. The first thing you must do when approaching a corner...body position.
Sometimes, if you're exiting a corner, that is followed by a corner turning in the same direction, it's not worth moving your body back to the centre of the bike, between the corners.

Click to expand...

One of the instructors mentioned that to me at my last track day. Since the majority of the track is right hand turns, keep your lower body setup for those right hand turns.

Alkhater said:

Confident post… I’ll give you that.

Is it true? Well no it isn’t!

Click to expand...

Please educate us.