Who is excited about the Ducati V4?

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TJ99 said:
In all fairness to the designer who is another friend and very talented, his original sketches were quite different to the final product, and even those were subject to heavy constraints/limitations. Due to a number of factors beyond his control he should not be judged by this.
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As inevitably costs and management intervention dilute the original concept, that said, I think it was a mistake to try and replicate the Panigale. Ducati would have been much better off packaging the V4 engine in a new for 2017 updated take on the D16RR design or an all new affair, rather than try and mutate an existing design (though tantalisingly successful one). Had we had a fresh model to hail the arrival of the first mass produced V4 superbike from Bologna, we'd all be queuing outside the dealerships now, just as people were when the 1098 first arrived in the UK. Great shame and a wasted opportunity.
 
I can only hope it's as ugly as it appears above. That will help values of the 1299. LOL
 
i'm just happy they didn't implement any of this

080417-jorge-lorenzo-motogp-ducati-new-fairing-design-f.jpg
 
Looking at the leaked pics (if legit) it looks like it's just another sports bike. It doesn't separate itself from the other Jap bikes. Even if it comes in a different dress and/or exhaust that engine and geometry set up looks pretty much final. It's going to be wide, really wide......
 
Who is excited about the V4?

This arm from the side fairing to the tank like the supersport it's really a bad decision

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topolino said:
Beauty and the beast. On the left a perfectly proportioned stunning model. On the right, they've tried to shoehorn a size 18 into a size 10 dress. Never gonna work! Looks not so much Panigale more ST4.

DJINeF9W4AYWIeI.jpg
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That's the nail on the head. A few others have also mentioned this. It's seems as though they can't let go of the Panigale. A few nods, sure, but this should be a brand new machine.

The Desmosedici was a stunning bike as it was unique, this looks like a chewed up and spat out Panigale.

Say what you like, but what is with that machining on the outside os the V4 crank case?!?! It's not functional, just sh*t. The design engineers have run out of ideas...... they just gave up
 
The Italian supermodel who got into a long term relationship and let herself go, but still goes off like a cut cat in bed.

No wonder a number of my mates have young Asian wifes now.
 
Mutt1979 said:
That's the nail on the head. A few others have also mentioned this. It's seems as though they can't let go of the Panigale. A few nods, sure, but this should be a brand new machine.

The Desmosedici was a stunning bike as it was unique, this looks like a chewed up and spat out Panigale.

Say what you like, but what is with that machining on the outside os the V4 crank case?!?! It's not functional, just sh*t. The design engineers have run out of ideas...... they just gave up
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Mutt the way I see it is this. Ostensibly, it's a much bigger engine being shoe-horned into a design that was conceived for a much narrower footprint. I still maintain that following the Panigale bloodline is a mistake. If you are going to herald in a huge step change such as a mass produced V4 engine to power your flagship model, why not create something new and fresh as opposed to regurgitating a 5 year old design. Possibly why no one butts an eye lid when MV poop out yet another F4 variant. Its a great design but it's married to the original mechanical architecture and works best with it. Try and mess with the fundamentals and make a square peg fit in a round hole and its only ever going to end in disaster. The photos that have been leaked thus far have been universally panned. If as I suspect the tooling has been already implemented on what we now know was a compromised design (as per TJ99's post), then they the factory are going to have to ride this one out until they can come up with a worthier replacement to introduce an all new engine to the mass produced market. Budgets and management have designed this bike, not inventive, creative designers. I don't see any passion in this design. More a quick fix to house the new engine in a passable host. Too bad they dont exercise market/customer research as they would have known well in advance this design was clearly heading down the wrong path, before committing to production. Sales will be the only clear indication how well this bike is actually received. Until then if I was in Claudio Domenicali's shoes right now, I'd be crossing my fingers. This supposedly is going to represent their top of the line model after all and if it doesnt measure up (uptake in sales), that's a big ....... problem. Maybe we'll see Audi AG looking to offload some of their trinkets with a degree more urgency as a result.
 
The big problem for management could well be the ability to tell why the bike
fails to sell. Has it tanked due to the shift from V2 to V4, or is it the aesthetics?
 
topolino said:
Mutt the way I see it is this. Ostensibly, it's a much bigger engine being shoe-horned into a design that was conceived for a much narrower footprint. I still maintain that following the Panigale bloodline is a mistake. If you are going to herald in a huge step change such as a mass produced V4 engine to power your flagship model, why not create something new and fresh as opposed to regurgitating a 5 year old design. Possibly why no one butts an eye lid when MV poop out yet another F4 variant. Its a great design but it's married to the original mechanical architecture and works best with it. Try and mess with the fundamentals and make a square peg fit in a round hole and its only ever going to end in disaster. The photos that have been leaked thus far have been universally panned. If as I suspect the tooling has been already implemented on what we now know was a compromised design (as per TJ99's post), then they the factory are going to have to ride this one out until they can come up with a worthier replacement to introduce an all new engine to the mass produced market. Budgets and management have designed this bike, not inventive, creative designers. I don't see any passion in this design. More a quick fix to house the new engine in a passable host. Too bad they dont exercise market/customer research as they would have known well in advance this design was clearly heading down the wrong path, before committing to production. Sales will be the only clear indication how well this bike is actually received. Until then if I was in Claudio Domenicali's shoes right now, I'd be crossing my fingers. This supposedly is going to represent their top of the line model after all and if it doesnt measure up (uptake in sales), that's a big ....... problem. Maybe we'll see Audi AG looking to offload some of their trinkets with a degree more urgency as a result.
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You've made some good points but there are a few more things to consider. For most people who still have the 1199 this will be an upgrade they will make. TO them its about the newer bigger, badder, better. It makes more power, modern design and better electronics. I believe it will sale, I think the traditionalists won't make the jump. Should they have kept the Panigale name? No.... not at all, I Can understand if they are trying to keep that name as a que to the monocoque design but it was lazy. To try and modernize the Panigale design (which has been one go the best motorcycle designs of all time was a mistake.
The engine will be the selling point, I don't think it will be nearly as aggressive as the Superquadro. Less torque and more revs, Im sure they will regain a WSBK title as a result of this, Im sure it will be an along engine. For me, Ill stick with my FE.
 
990Glen said:
The big problem for management could well be the ability to tell why the bike
fails to sell. Has it tanked due to the shift from V2 to V4, or is it the aesthetics?
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I don't think anyone is going to lay the blame at the feet of the powerplant, since it's in its infancy in terms of exploitation and development (I can see a 100cc hike in 2 years time to keep sales afloat ie 1199 to 1299), so that just leaves looks. Aside from your bar stool bullshitters, insistent that a 210bhp V4 heavier engine, is superior to a 209bhp lighter V-twin (1299 FE) most people are driven by a bikes appearance. If you package a product well and market it accordingly you can sell it. An engine alone is not enough in my humble opinion to sway anyone, except the most fickle of buyers.
 
Kevin1199 said:
You've made some good points but there are a few more things to consider. For most people who still have the 1199 this will be an upgrade they will make. TO them its about the newer bigger, badder, better. It makes more power, modern design and better electronics. I believe it will sale, I think the traditionalists won't make the jump. Should they have kept the Panigale name? No.... not at all, I Can understand if they are trying to keep that name as a que to the monocoque design but it was lazy. To try and modernize the Panigale design (which has been one go the best motorcycle designs of all time was a mistake.
The engine will be the selling point, I don't think it will be nearly as aggressive as the Superquadro. Less torque and more revs, Im sure they will regain a WSBK title as a result of this, Im sure it will be an along engine. For me, Ill stick with my FE.
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Good point but although some will make the jump, they may not jump to this Ducati and to some other brands who also make "more power, modern design and better electronics.":D
 
Kevin1199 said:
You've made some good points but there are a few more things to consider. For most people who still have the 1199 this will be an upgrade they will make. TO them its about the newer bigger, badder, better. It makes more power, modern design and better electronics. I believe it will sale, I think the traditionalists won't make the jump. Should they have kept the Panigale name? No.... not at all, I Can understand if they are trying to keep that name as a que to the monocoque design but it was lazy. To try and modernize the Panigale design (which has been one go the best motorcycle designs of all time was a mistake.
The engine will be the selling point, I don't think it will be nearly as aggressive as the Superquadro. Less torque and more revs, Im sure they will regain a WSBK title as a result of this, Im sure it will be an along engine. For me, Ill stick with my FE.
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You could be right but as with many products, first impressions often count. This design falls so far wide of the mark, that relying on the engine alone to justify your purchase is a skewed way to make a sound decision. If that were the only criteria you might as well bolt the V4 to a skateboard and be done with it. All bikes are a compromise between cost and design constraints but you at least want one that looks AND goes well. The two (at least historically with Ducati, save for the 999) were never mutually exclusive. It is well documented that the original MV F4 was meant to house the successor to the 916 engine, the Testastretta. Had this have happened, we would have seen an iconic bike reach fruition but it never came to be. Just as the much anticipated Stradale engine, now finds itself in an ill suited host.
 
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Until Ducati speak up as such, this debate will rage on re the aesthetics. But its no doubt very much contentious.

The new era & flagship v4 sportsbike should be joyous & surrounded by ppl saying "Gimme one now!", but it isnt...:confused:

The 1199 Panigale, as i said to ppl was the "pinnacle" in Ducatis sports bike design & bold engineering. Quite no other bike out there sounds like it, looks like it or feels like it. Its exhilerating to ride, unlike no other.

The v4 has big shoes to fill & as it stands where the Panigale is concerned, its design is falling short of the 1199 so maybe this is where the upset is coming from (?). It has to go as good as it looks. Thats what Ducati's are about, not looking / feeling sterile.

Again.....the leaked pics are v convincing, if Ducati trump us all come Nov 5th, they are Keyser Soze !!
 
topolino said:
that relying on the engine alone to justify your purchase is a skewed way to make a sound decision.
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People are gonna hate me but i didnt get the 1299 because of looks. I bought it because of the way it rode, how the engine sounded and pulled, and how it made me feel when i test rode it. To this day im still not 100% sold on the looks of the panigale but i know theres a big grin everytime i throw my leg over her. But really its the engine that sold it to me cus it was noticeably different to the other bikes i test rode.
 
^^^^ You are definitely in the minority there. No matter how good the bike rides or sounds, I'd say 9 out 10 made their purchase of a Panigale based on the stunning good looks, meaning that if the same exact package was offered in a bike that looked different, those buyers would not have purchased the other bike. Well, except for you of course ☺

No hate here.
 

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