1199 R Superleggera

Ducati Forum

Help Support Ducati Forum:

Duck41 said:
In this case it wouldn't even qualify as circumstantial evidence considering the claim is manifested from a fictitious scenario. For every forum post of a BMW outpacing a Panigale, there is another stating the opposite. There would certainly be variables associated with any testing method, including dyno calibration, but as variables are more effectively controlled, conclusions can be made with greater accuracy. An engine dyno would be a good step towards testing your suspicions under a more sufficiently controlled environment.
Click to expand...

How about you spare me the suspense and share your evidence, other than the claim by Ducati marketing department, that the engine produces 195HP?
 
Surgut said:
How about you spare me the suspense and share your evidence, other than the claim by Ducati marketing department, that the engine produces 195HP?
Click to expand...

If there is any suspense in the matter I assure you it is shared by you alone; unless of course you have yet again imagined there to be something that simply isn't there. I don't believe anyone else here has even come close to questioning the legitimacy of crank power figures. As such, since the burden of proof lies with the accuser and since this state of suspense is one that you alone share, it would only make sense that you take responsibility to validate your claims yourself.
 
They represent Ducati though and, although this is off topic a bit, never once saw anything saying Ducati would come out with either of those models. Even on these forums where news usually breaks first everyone said no R was in the works according to ducati.

It's just annoying to release so many variations so close together and not tell anyone. They know what they are doing though cause you have people that will sell their bikes for a loss to buy the new one even though they have only had it a short time. Ducati knows how to get people suckered in.
 
The subjective stuff I'll leave you all to keep arguing about, but I'll attempt to clear up one aspect of this: When Ducati announced the 1199R, they actually said they weren't planning to make one, but they needed those changes for WSBK homologation for 2013 and that is the only reason the R was released. I can tell you from the dealer perspective, we were as surprised when the R was released as anyone else was. When Ducati went over the 1199 details at first release, they even said "With all of the stuff we put in this new bike/engine design, there's no reason to have an R model". And I believe that was actually their intent at the time. That all changed after a season in World Superstock and testing for WSBK, after they saw the changes that they needed for the next year's race bikes due to the rules handicap (or some would say benefit) that the V-Twin is saddled (propped up) with.
 
gnance said:
They represent Ducati though and, although this is off topic a bit, never once saw anything saying Ducati would come out with either of those models. Even on these forums where news usually breaks first everyone said no R was in the works according to ducati.

It's just annoying to release so many variations so close together and not tell anyone. They know what they are doing though cause you have people that will sell their bikes for a loss to buy the new one even though they have only had it a short time. Ducati knows how to get people suckered in.
Click to expand...

This is simply a business. THAT'S IT. No company forces or convinces any individual to go and buy their product, or in this case bike. The number of "I gotta have it soon as it comes out" kind of individuals are enough for most companies to capitalize on. Your point can easily be countered by saying don't be in a rush to buy the first thing you see. I mean sure the R didn't come out til the 2nd year of production but who cares? This is how businesses exist long term. If they didn't come out with newer and newer ...., eventually the market will get saturated and they will be out of business. There is and always will be a demand for better. Moral of this story is be content with what you have. If you're constantly chasing the "I gotta have the best" dream, you'll be running til you die.
 
Not to mention if they didn't come out with anything new, people would bitch Ducati doesn't care about their racing series and doesn't want to win, blah blah blah
 
Duck41 said:
If there is any suspense in the matter I assure you it is shared by you alone; unless of course you have yet again imagined there to be something that simply isn't there. I don't believe anyone else here has even come close to questioning the legitimacy of crank power figures. As such, since the burden of proof lies with the accuser and since this state of suspense is one that you alone share, it would only make sense that you take responsibility to validate your claims yourself.
Click to expand...

Let me see if I get your statement right: Do you suggest it is unreasonable on my part to question Ducati's HP numbers by basing my suspicions on third party's measurements of HP at the wheel for different bikes, and finding out that 1199 with a claimed 195HP at the crank produced 156.7 @ 10,500 at the wheel comparing to 178.8 @ 13,300 by BMW S 1000 R with the claim of 193HP, or 152.6 @ 12,600 for the Ape with a claim of 180HP?

There was an exhaust maker claiming an 1199 with his exhaust pumped 191HP at the wheel. Since you and Dennis seem to trust what manufactures say about their numbers you could bring your bike up to Superleggera's HP by purchasing this exhaust...
 
Surgut said:
Let me see if I get your statement right: Do you suggest it is unreasonable on my part to question Ducati's HP numbers by basing my suspicions on third party's measurements of HP at the wheel for different bikes, and finding out that 1199 with a claimed 195HP at the crank produced 156.7 @ 10,500 at the wheel comparing to 178.8 @ 13,300 by BMW S 1000 R with the claim of 193HP, or 152.6 @ 12,600 for the Ape with a claim of 180HP?

There was an exhaust maker claiming an 1199 with his exhaust pumped 191HP at the wheel. Since you and Dennis seem to trust what manufactures say about their numbers you could bring your bike up to Superleggera's HP by purchasing this exhaust...
Click to expand...

mines bigger than yours..na na na na...:D
 
Surgut said:
Let me see if I get your statement right: Do you suggest it is unreasonable on my part to question Ducati's HP numbers by basing my suspicions on third party's measurements of HP at the wheel for different bikes, and finding out that 1199 with a claimed 195HP at the crank produced 156.7 @ 10,500 at the wheel comparing to 178.8 @ 13,300 by BMW S 1000 R with the claim of 193HP, or 152.6 @ 12,600 for the Ape with a claim of 180HP?

There was an exhaust maker claiming an 1199 with his exhaust pumped 191HP at the wheel. Since you and Dennis seem to trust what manufactures say about their numbers you could bring your bike up to Superleggera's HP by purchasing this exhaust...
Click to expand...

I would say it's unreasonable to take any one instance and draw universal conclusions based on that single observance. For example, there are many members here who have posted Dyno charts with much higher HP numbers than what your referenced third party company got. Even despite the many variables that must be accounted for when considering dyno numbers derived from different locations and weather conditions, the fact that more data is available suggests we can draw conclusions with a higher degree of certainty than if we only considered the single instance you noted. Essentially, that single number carries very little weight in the overall statistical picture.
 
Surgut said:
Let me see if I get your statement right: Do you suggest it is unreasonable on my part to question Ducati's HP numbers by basing my suspicions on third party's measurements of HP at the wheel for different bikes, and finding out that 1199 with a claimed 195HP at the crank produced 156.7 @ 10,500 at the wheel comparing to 178.8 @ 13,300 by BMW S 1000 R with the claim of 193HP, or 152.6 @ 12,600 for the Ape with a claim of 180HP?

There was an exhaust maker claiming an 1199 with his exhaust pumped 191HP at the wheel. Since you and Dennis seem to trust what manufactures say about their numbers you could bring your bike up to Superleggera's HP by purchasing this exhaust...
Click to expand...


it was about time to discuss dyno numbers in this thread. especially of a bike that's not out there yet :D:D:D

mentioning the beloved S1kRR, i had mine (pen1s) measuerd against one (see thread ... dyno at bike night) and guess what. both were 170 at the wheel. http://ducati1199.com/ducati-1199/1...-s1000rr.html?highlight=dyno+local+bike+night

had mine at a different dyno a few months later and it made 168...

both without ram-air and extensive cooling.


just sayin'


you will get 150 something numbers if you don't follow the procedure, as some bike magazines seem to be experts in...

so where can higher numbers come from. there are some members on here with >190 at the wheel, some mags in Germany tested 2 Panigali with >200. (i think it was PS)

throw in the crank, the pistons, the rods and a proper mapping, whooohoo, 220 here ya go.




me thinks. :rolleyes:
 
dyno number variances may be due to lots of things - Ambient temps, engine temps, intake temps, humidity, altitude, fuel differences, dyno type, dyno correction, SAE, etc. just to name a few. It's not an end-all-be-all measurement. It's used as a tuning tool to measure delta for each modification / alteration. That's all.

Just thought I'd throw it out there...
 
Ok let see:
1199 r superleggera=$70,000
ducati 1199s =$24,000
bmw s1000rr=$18,000
mv agusta f4rr=$24,000

I can buy 3 bad ass ....... bike and any way you put it, I got 3 bike mean I got a collection my bragging right is bigger( because we all know that if you buy that bike is just for bragging) we that clear please let stop feeding some of this people with attention THAT IS WHAT THEY WANT they don't have the bike yet and they already trying to show off,if you want to buy good for you send me some picture when you get it also you can send some picture of you wife I check it out too:).
 
Nitrouz said:
dyno number variances may be due to lots of things - Ambient temps, engine temps, intake temps, humidity, altitude, fuel differences, dyno type, dyno correction, SAE, etc. just to name a few. It's not an end-all-be-all measurement. It's used as a tuning tool to measure delta for each modification / alteration. That's all.

Just thought I'd throw it out there...
Click to expand...

Absolutely correct.

Also to all those who are bitching and moaning about being ripped off, and that DUCATI hasn't delivered on their marketing hype (Checkmate = bad) garbage.

Prove to us all here that your engine doesn't make 195 hp at the crank anywhere. Take your pick out of SAE or DIN figures, but i'll give you a hint.
DIN typically yields higher numbers, and that's the standard that DUCATI would've used.

God knows, I don't think there's anybody here who could use all it's got anyway.
 
Stw said:
Lets start here...


Checkmate... Was the 1199 really checkmate for its competitors??? Or was that a reach???
Click to expand...


I can't believe you read fact into the marketing hype of that Checkmate video:(

It was a wonderful video production in it's own right, but there was no information contained in it what so ever :confused:

Get over it for gods sake:)
 
So is a 458 a rip off? I could have 4 M3's that can probably give it a damn good run for its money around a track, or even beat it... Im surprised Ferrari has sold a SINGLE car.

But no, you want one car that can do it all. Exclusive, exotic, fast, handles, and you want it all in a sexy package that makes your neighbors envious.
 
My Evo can beat 458's around a track while I'm still able to retain over $200k that I don't have lol. Just sayin :D

The guy complaining about HP #'s is from Colorado where the air is thin, high altitude. You will NEVERRRRR see a Panigale in Colorado hitting 175+ RWHP without a turbo slapped on. Like someone mentioned, dyno is nothing more than a tuning tool. What's important is your before and after results if you've modified the bike with performance parts. Besides having an exclusive limited production bike, you also get bragging rights. Hopefully without actually bragging about it. If I had the $$, for sure I'd buy one just to say I have the baddest machine on 2 wheels on the planet....For the moment!
 
Duck41 said:
I would say it's unreasonable to take any one instance and draw universal conclusions based on that single observance. For example, there are many members here who have posted Dyno charts with much higher HP numbers than what your referenced third party company got. Even despite the many variables that must be accounted for when considering dyno numbers derived from different locations and weather conditions, the fact that more data is available suggests we can draw conclusions with a higher degree of certainty than if we only considered the single instance you noted. Essentially, that single number carries very little weight in the overall statistical picture.
Click to expand...

Fair enough; those were the numbers by Sports rider magazine (Sport Bike Motorcycle Weights and Measurements - Sport Rider Magazine),
here are the numbers by Motorcyclist performance test everyone saw on youtube:
F4rr 167.2 claimed 195 85%
1199R 154.2 claimed 195 78%
1190RC8R 144.7 claimed 173 83%
RSV4 Factory 153.7 claimed 180 85%
HP4 177.5 claimed 193 92%

I'm sure we could dig out more of side by side ride comparing, and I suspect those measured numbers would be very similar, since Ducati appears to be the only one with the discrepancy exceeding 20% let me ask you again; is it unreasonable to suspect that Ducati is exaggerating their numbers?

And just to indulge me, could you give me your best guess on what the claimed 210HP(or whatever they say) of 1199SL would look like at the wheel?
 

Register CTA

Register on Ducati Forum! This sidebar will go away, and you will see fewer ads.

Recent Discussions

Back
Top