1199 R Superleggera

Ducati Forum

Help Support Ducati Forum:

Duck41 said:
If there is any suspense in the matter I assure you it is shared by you alone; unless of course you have yet again imagined there to be something that simply isn't there. I don't believe anyone else here has even come close to questioning the legitimacy of crank power figures. As such, since the burden of proof lies with the accuser and since this state of suspense is one that you alone share, it would only make sense that you take responsibility to validate your claims yourself.
Click to expand...

Let me see if I get your statement right: Do you suggest it is unreasonable on my part to question Ducati's HP numbers by basing my suspicions on third party's measurements of HP at the wheel for different bikes, and finding out that 1199 with a claimed 195HP at the crank produced 156.7 @ 10,500 at the wheel comparing to 178.8 @ 13,300 by BMW S 1000 R with the claim of 193HP, or 152.6 @ 12,600 for the Ape with a claim of 180HP?

There was an exhaust maker claiming an 1199 with his exhaust pumped 191HP at the wheel. Since you and Dennis seem to trust what manufactures say about their numbers you could bring your bike up to Superleggera's HP by purchasing this exhaust...
 
Surgut said:
Let me see if I get your statement right: Do you suggest it is unreasonable on my part to question Ducati's HP numbers by basing my suspicions on third party's measurements of HP at the wheel for different bikes, and finding out that 1199 with a claimed 195HP at the crank produced 156.7 @ 10,500 at the wheel comparing to 178.8 @ 13,300 by BMW S 1000 R with the claim of 193HP, or 152.6 @ 12,600 for the Ape with a claim of 180HP?

There was an exhaust maker claiming an 1199 with his exhaust pumped 191HP at the wheel. Since you and Dennis seem to trust what manufactures say about their numbers you could bring your bike up to Superleggera's HP by purchasing this exhaust...
Click to expand...

mines bigger than yours..na na na na...:D
 
Surgut said:
Let me see if I get your statement right: Do you suggest it is unreasonable on my part to question Ducati's HP numbers by basing my suspicions on third party's measurements of HP at the wheel for different bikes, and finding out that 1199 with a claimed 195HP at the crank produced 156.7 @ 10,500 at the wheel comparing to 178.8 @ 13,300 by BMW S 1000 R with the claim of 193HP, or 152.6 @ 12,600 for the Ape with a claim of 180HP?

There was an exhaust maker claiming an 1199 with his exhaust pumped 191HP at the wheel. Since you and Dennis seem to trust what manufactures say about their numbers you could bring your bike up to Superleggera's HP by purchasing this exhaust...
Click to expand...

I would say it's unreasonable to take any one instance and draw universal conclusions based on that single observance. For example, there are many members here who have posted Dyno charts with much higher HP numbers than what your referenced third party company got. Even despite the many variables that must be accounted for when considering dyno numbers derived from different locations and weather conditions, the fact that more data is available suggests we can draw conclusions with a higher degree of certainty than if we only considered the single instance you noted. Essentially, that single number carries very little weight in the overall statistical picture.
 
Surgut said:
Let me see if I get your statement right: Do you suggest it is unreasonable on my part to question Ducati's HP numbers by basing my suspicions on third party's measurements of HP at the wheel for different bikes, and finding out that 1199 with a claimed 195HP at the crank produced 156.7 @ 10,500 at the wheel comparing to 178.8 @ 13,300 by BMW S 1000 R with the claim of 193HP, or 152.6 @ 12,600 for the Ape with a claim of 180HP?

There was an exhaust maker claiming an 1199 with his exhaust pumped 191HP at the wheel. Since you and Dennis seem to trust what manufactures say about their numbers you could bring your bike up to Superleggera's HP by purchasing this exhaust...
Click to expand...


it was about time to discuss dyno numbers in this thread. especially of a bike that's not out there yet :D:D:D

mentioning the beloved S1kRR, i had mine (pen1s) measuerd against one (see thread ... dyno at bike night) and guess what. both were 170 at the wheel. http://ducati1199.com/ducati-1199/1...-s1000rr.html?highlight=dyno+local+bike+night

had mine at a different dyno a few months later and it made 168...

both without ram-air and extensive cooling.


just sayin'


you will get 150 something numbers if you don't follow the procedure, as some bike magazines seem to be experts in...

so where can higher numbers come from. there are some members on here with >190 at the wheel, some mags in Germany tested 2 Panigali with >200. (i think it was PS)

throw in the crank, the pistons, the rods and a proper mapping, whooohoo, 220 here ya go.




me thinks. :rolleyes:
 
dyno number variances may be due to lots of things - Ambient temps, engine temps, intake temps, humidity, altitude, fuel differences, dyno type, dyno correction, SAE, etc. just to name a few. It's not an end-all-be-all measurement. It's used as a tuning tool to measure delta for each modification / alteration. That's all.

Just thought I'd throw it out there...
 
Ok let see:
1199 r superleggera=$70,000
ducati 1199s =$24,000
bmw s1000rr=$18,000
mv agusta f4rr=$24,000

I can buy 3 bad ass ....... bike and any way you put it, I got 3 bike mean I got a collection my bragging right is bigger( because we all know that if you buy that bike is just for bragging) we that clear please let stop feeding some of this people with attention THAT IS WHAT THEY WANT they don't have the bike yet and they already trying to show off,if you want to buy good for you send me some picture when you get it also you can send some picture of you wife I check it out too:).
 
Nitrouz said:
dyno number variances may be due to lots of things - Ambient temps, engine temps, intake temps, humidity, altitude, fuel differences, dyno type, dyno correction, SAE, etc. just to name a few. It's not an end-all-be-all measurement. It's used as a tuning tool to measure delta for each modification / alteration. That's all.

Just thought I'd throw it out there...
Click to expand...

Absolutely correct.

Also to all those who are bitching and moaning about being ripped off, and that DUCATI hasn't delivered on their marketing hype (Checkmate = bad) garbage.

Prove to us all here that your engine doesn't make 195 hp at the crank anywhere. Take your pick out of SAE or DIN figures, but i'll give you a hint.
DIN typically yields higher numbers, and that's the standard that DUCATI would've used.

God knows, I don't think there's anybody here who could use all it's got anyway.
 
Stw said:
Lets start here...


Checkmate... Was the 1199 really checkmate for its competitors??? Or was that a reach???
Click to expand...


I can't believe you read fact into the marketing hype of that Checkmate video:(

It was a wonderful video production in it's own right, but there was no information contained in it what so ever :confused:

Get over it for gods sake:)
 
So is a 458 a rip off? I could have 4 M3's that can probably give it a damn good run for its money around a track, or even beat it... Im surprised Ferrari has sold a SINGLE car.

But no, you want one car that can do it all. Exclusive, exotic, fast, handles, and you want it all in a sexy package that makes your neighbors envious.
 
My Evo can beat 458's around a track while I'm still able to retain over $200k that I don't have lol. Just sayin :D

The guy complaining about HP #'s is from Colorado where the air is thin, high altitude. You will NEVERRRRR see a Panigale in Colorado hitting 175+ RWHP without a turbo slapped on. Like someone mentioned, dyno is nothing more than a tuning tool. What's important is your before and after results if you've modified the bike with performance parts. Besides having an exclusive limited production bike, you also get bragging rights. Hopefully without actually bragging about it. If I had the $$, for sure I'd buy one just to say I have the baddest machine on 2 wheels on the planet....For the moment!
 
Duck41 said:
I would say it's unreasonable to take any one instance and draw universal conclusions based on that single observance. For example, there are many members here who have posted Dyno charts with much higher HP numbers than what your referenced third party company got. Even despite the many variables that must be accounted for when considering dyno numbers derived from different locations and weather conditions, the fact that more data is available suggests we can draw conclusions with a higher degree of certainty than if we only considered the single instance you noted. Essentially, that single number carries very little weight in the overall statistical picture.
Click to expand...

Fair enough; those were the numbers by Sports rider magazine (Sport Bike Motorcycle Weights and Measurements - Sport Rider Magazine),
here are the numbers by Motorcyclist performance test everyone saw on youtube:
F4rr 167.2 claimed 195 85%
1199R 154.2 claimed 195 78%
1190RC8R 144.7 claimed 173 83%
RSV4 Factory 153.7 claimed 180 85%
HP4 177.5 claimed 193 92%

I'm sure we could dig out more of side by side ride comparing, and I suspect those measured numbers would be very similar, since Ducati appears to be the only one with the discrepancy exceeding 20% let me ask you again; is it unreasonable to suspect that Ducati is exaggerating their numbers?

And just to indulge me, could you give me your best guess on what the claimed 210HP(or whatever they say) of 1199SL would look like at the wheel?
 
Surgut said:
Fair enough; those were the numbers by Sports rider magazine (Sport Bike Motorcycle Weights and Measurements - Sport Rider Magazine),
here are the numbers by Motorcyclist performance test everyone saw on youtube:
F4rr 167.2 claimed 195 85%
1199R 154.2 claimed 195 78%
1190RC8R 144.7 claimed 173 83%
RSV4 Factory 153.7 claimed 180 85%
HP4 177.5 claimed 193 92%

I'm sure we could dig out more of side by side ride comparing, and I suspect those measured numbers would be very similar, since Ducati appears to be the only one with the discrepancy exceeding 20% let me ask you again; is it unreasonable to suspect that Ducati is exaggerating their numbers?

And just to indulge me, could you give me your best guess on what the claimed 210HP(or whatever they say) of 1199SL would look like at the wheel?
Click to expand...

Did that magazine disconnect the rear wheel speed sensor like they're supposed to? I've never seen another Panigale dyno so low. Usually they're in the 170's-180's.
 
EvoL said:
Did that magazine disconnect the rear wheel speed sensor like they're supposed to? I've never seen another Panigale dyno so low. Usually they're in the 170's-180's.
Click to expand...
I don't know....but whatever they did or didn't, I suspect they did to all bikes just the same.....
And don't feel bad, there is a guy on Ducati.ms showing off a dyno run with 190HP at the rear with just slip ons....
 
Last edited:
Surgut said:
I don't know....but whatever they did or didn't, I suspect they did to all bikes just the same.....
And don't feel bad, there is a guy on Ducati.ms showing off a dyno run with 190HP at the rear with just slip ons....
Click to expand...

Aren't the numbers claimed for hp to the crank ?
 
What's to feel bad about anyway? Just because some silly numbers that don't mean jack .... anyway unless your analyzing this as a mathematician... I think it comes down to overall performance of the bike in all categories not just "claimed" HP at the crank.

Troll on Surgut!;)
 
Surgut said:
Fair enough; those were the numbers by Sports rider magazine (Sport Bike Motorcycle Weights and Measurements - Sport Rider Magazine),
here are the numbers by Motorcyclist performance test everyone saw on youtube:
F4rr 167.2 claimed 195 85%
1199R 154.2 claimed 195 78%
1190RC8R 144.7 claimed 173 83%
RSV4 Factory 153.7 claimed 180 85%
HP4 177.5 claimed 193 92%

I'm sure we could dig out more of side by side ride comparing, and I suspect those measured numbers would be very similar, since Ducati appears to be the only one with the discrepancy exceeding 20% let me ask you again; is it unreasonable to suspect that Ducati is exaggerating their numbers?

And just to indulge me, could you give me your best guess on what the claimed 210HP(or whatever they say) of 1199SL would look like at the wheel?
Click to expand...


Umm... surely being a motoring enthusiast you would understand by now that dyno numbers are meaningless on their own. Let alone dyno numbers that magazines publish.
Dyno numbers for RWHP are a relative figure, at best, they are good for an educated guesstimate for before and after mods.. Even on the same bike same day same dyno. Something as minor as chain tension or how tight the tie downs are or tyres can have a significant effect on the results.

If you want dyno numbers with real meaning, it needs to be an engine dyno in a completely controlled environment.
 
Surgut said:
Fair enough; those were the numbers by Sports rider magazine (Sport Bike Motorcycle Weights and Measurements - Sport Rider Magazine),
here are the numbers by Motorcyclist performance test everyone saw on youtube:
F4rr 167.2 claimed 195 85%
1199R 154.2 claimed 195 78%
1190RC8R 144.7 claimed 173 83%
RSV4 Factory 153.7 claimed 180 85%
HP4 177.5 claimed 193 92%

I'm sure we could dig out more of side by side ride comparing, and I suspect those measured numbers would be very similar, since Ducati appears to be the only one with the discrepancy exceeding 20% let me ask you again; is it unreasonable to suspect that Ducati is exaggerating their numbers?

And just to indulge me, could you give me your best guess on what the claimed 210HP(or whatever they say) of 1199SL would look like at the wheel?
Click to expand...

They dyno'd it incorrectly. That was pretty much an obvious ...... on their part.

From the same article:

Ducati 1199 Panigale R
Price $29,995
Measured horsepower: 154.2 bhp @ 10,600 rpm
Measured torque: 81.5 lb.-ft. @ 9000 rpm
Corrected ¼-mile: 9.99 sec. @ 143.93 mph
BEST LAP:1:50.87
2nd Fastest

BMW HP4　（S1000RRのHight-Performance）
Price $24,995
Measured horsepower: 177.5 bhp @ 13,300 rpm
Measured torque: 77.1 lb.-ft. @ 10,300
Corrected ¼-mile: 9.82 sec. @ 150.01 mph　＞1/4マイルを10秒切っとる（笑）
BEST LAP:1:51.19
3rd Fastest
 
Yes, and considering the fact that their numbers were significantly lower than the vast majority, I'd say the obvious error actually helps to substantiate the legitimacy of Ducati's hp claims.

Surgut, here is another dyno comparison from motorcycle.com showing the Pani R hitting 186 RWHP (compared to the HP4's 173). Again, this instance alone means very little but I didn't want you to get the impression that all magazine journalists are incompetent in collecting accurate dyno numbers.

2013 Exotic Superbike Shootout: Street - Video
 
My 1199 S Dyno'd at 171, which means drivetrain loss is 12.4% (.8769) if the HP at the crank is 195. The dyno was done correctly and it was not a generous dyno. There are countless other real-world dynos that demonstrate the same (or more). Can't believe this is something we're even discussing.
 
Last edited:

Register CTA

Register on Ducati Forum! This sidebar will go away, and you will see fewer ads.

Recent Discussions

Back
Top