1199 R Superleggera

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Surgut said:
Fair enough; those were the numbers by Sports rider magazine (Sport Bike Motorcycle Weights and Measurements - Sport Rider Magazine),
here are the numbers by Motorcyclist performance test everyone saw on youtube:
F4rr 167.2 claimed 195 85%
1199R 154.2 claimed 195 78%
1190RC8R 144.7 claimed 173 83%
RSV4 Factory 153.7 claimed 180 85%
HP4 177.5 claimed 193 92%

I'm sure we could dig out more of side by side ride comparing, and I suspect those measured numbers would be very similar, since Ducati appears to be the only one with the discrepancy exceeding 20% let me ask you again; is it unreasonable to suspect that Ducati is exaggerating their numbers?

And just to indulge me, could you give me your best guess on what the claimed 210HP(or whatever they say) of 1199SL would look like at the wheel?
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Did that magazine disconnect the rear wheel speed sensor like they're supposed to? I've never seen another Panigale dyno so low. Usually they're in the 170's-180's.
 
EvoL said:
Did that magazine disconnect the rear wheel speed sensor like they're supposed to? I've never seen another Panigale dyno so low. Usually they're in the 170's-180's.
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I don't know....but whatever they did or didn't, I suspect they did to all bikes just the same.....
And don't feel bad, there is a guy on Ducati.ms showing off a dyno run with 190HP at the rear with just slip ons....
 
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Surgut said:
I don't know....but whatever they did or didn't, I suspect they did to all bikes just the same.....
And don't feel bad, there is a guy on Ducati.ms showing off a dyno run with 190HP at the rear with just slip ons....
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Aren't the numbers claimed for hp to the crank ?
 
What's to feel bad about anyway? Just because some silly numbers that don't mean jack .... anyway unless your analyzing this as a mathematician... I think it comes down to overall performance of the bike in all categories not just "claimed" HP at the crank.

Troll on Surgut!;)
 
Surgut said:
Fair enough; those were the numbers by Sports rider magazine (Sport Bike Motorcycle Weights and Measurements - Sport Rider Magazine),
here are the numbers by Motorcyclist performance test everyone saw on youtube:
F4rr 167.2 claimed 195 85%
1199R 154.2 claimed 195 78%
1190RC8R 144.7 claimed 173 83%
RSV4 Factory 153.7 claimed 180 85%
HP4 177.5 claimed 193 92%

I'm sure we could dig out more of side by side ride comparing, and I suspect those measured numbers would be very similar, since Ducati appears to be the only one with the discrepancy exceeding 20% let me ask you again; is it unreasonable to suspect that Ducati is exaggerating their numbers?

And just to indulge me, could you give me your best guess on what the claimed 210HP(or whatever they say) of 1199SL would look like at the wheel?
Click to expand...


Umm... surely being a motoring enthusiast you would understand by now that dyno numbers are meaningless on their own. Let alone dyno numbers that magazines publish.
Dyno numbers for RWHP are a relative figure, at best, they are good for an educated guesstimate for before and after mods.. Even on the same bike same day same dyno. Something as minor as chain tension or how tight the tie downs are or tyres can have a significant effect on the results.

If you want dyno numbers with real meaning, it needs to be an engine dyno in a completely controlled environment.
 
Surgut said:
Fair enough; those were the numbers by Sports rider magazine (Sport Bike Motorcycle Weights and Measurements - Sport Rider Magazine),
here are the numbers by Motorcyclist performance test everyone saw on youtube:
F4rr 167.2 claimed 195 85%
1199R 154.2 claimed 195 78%
1190RC8R 144.7 claimed 173 83%
RSV4 Factory 153.7 claimed 180 85%
HP4 177.5 claimed 193 92%

I'm sure we could dig out more of side by side ride comparing, and I suspect those measured numbers would be very similar, since Ducati appears to be the only one with the discrepancy exceeding 20% let me ask you again; is it unreasonable to suspect that Ducati is exaggerating their numbers?

And just to indulge me, could you give me your best guess on what the claimed 210HP(or whatever they say) of 1199SL would look like at the wheel?
Click to expand...

They dyno'd it incorrectly. That was pretty much an obvious ...... on their part.

From the same article:

Ducati 1199 Panigale R
Price $29,995
Measured horsepower: 154.2 bhp @ 10,600 rpm
Measured torque: 81.5 lb.-ft. @ 9000 rpm
Corrected ¼-mile: 9.99 sec. @ 143.93 mph
BEST LAP:1:50.87
2nd Fastest

BMW HP4　（S1000RRのHight-Performance）
Price $24,995
Measured horsepower: 177.5 bhp @ 13,300 rpm
Measured torque: 77.1 lb.-ft. @ 10,300
Corrected ¼-mile: 9.82 sec. @ 150.01 mph　＞1/4マイルを10秒切っとる（笑）
BEST LAP:1:51.19
3rd Fastest
 
Yes, and considering the fact that their numbers were significantly lower than the vast majority, I'd say the obvious error actually helps to substantiate the legitimacy of Ducati's hp claims.

Surgut, here is another dyno comparison from motorcycle.com showing the Pani R hitting 186 RWHP (compared to the HP4's 173). Again, this instance alone means very little but I didn't want you to get the impression that all magazine journalists are incompetent in collecting accurate dyno numbers.

2013 Exotic Superbike Shootout: Street - Video
 
My 1199 S Dyno'd at 171, which means drivetrain loss is 12.4% (.8769) if the HP at the crank is 195. The dyno was done correctly and it was not a generous dyno. There are countless other real-world dynos that demonstrate the same (or more). Can't believe this is something we're even discussing.
 
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I don't know fellas, I still have my suspicions the numbers are on the high side for Ducati, however,as Flob correctly pointed out there is not much meaning to the numbers per say.
Be as it may I'm going to disagree with Dennis on his assumption that SL will come out with even higher numbers then what they've already reported.
 
Surgut said:
I don't know fellas, I still have my suspicions the numbers are on the high side for Ducati, however,as Flob correctly pointed out there is not much meaning to the numbers per say.
Be as it may I'm going to disagree with Dennis on his assumption that SL will come out with even higher numbers then what they've already reported.
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Do you own an 1199 and have you had it dyno'd?
 
Dynos, especially inertia based ones, are highly subject to calibration factors, wheel slippage, etc. Only a steady-state dyno like an eddy-current or waterbrake setup can give you honest power figures, but even then, it doesn't tell the whole story, because then that ignores dynamic advantages a bike with lightened flywheel/wheels, etc might have.

The only thing that really matters is how well the whole package works. I find that the 1199R accelerates faster, and achieves higher speeds down the straight than any other bike I have encountered on this season's track days, which includes HP4. Whatever it's making at the rear wheel, it's apparently enough.
 
I used to work with a guy who set all the clocks 5 minutes fast so he could leave work early every day .
Not too sure what it has to do with dyno figures but this conversation reminded me of him .
 
Does it all matter as it's been said before pretty much none of us can use whatever these bikes produce and the 899 has a lot less and it feels brilliant on the road
 
AntiHero said:
My 1199 S Dyno'd at 171, which means drivetrain loss is 12.4% (.8769) if the HP at the crank is 195. The dyno was done correctly and it was not a generous dyno. There are countless other real-world dynos that demonstrate the same (or more). Can't believe this is something we're even discussing.
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Your loss factor is too great.
On a motorcycle it is "believed" to be more like in the order of 9% give or take 0.5%.
 
tcelano said:
Dynos, especially inertia based ones, are highly subject to calibration factors, wheel slippage, etc. Only a steady-state dyno like an eddy-current or waterbrake setup can give you honest power figures, but even then, it doesn't tell the whole story, because then that ignores dynamic advantages a bike with lightened flywheel/wheels, etc might have.

The only thing that really matters is how well the whole package works. I find that the 1199R accelerates faster, and achieves higher speeds down the straight than any other bike I have encountered on this season's track days, which includes HP4. Whatever it's making at the rear wheel, it's apparently enough.
Click to expand...

Well said.
 
Brad said:
Your loss factor is too great.
On a motorcycle it is "believed" to be more like in the order of 9% give or take 0.5%.
Click to expand...
That is what l'm driving at...I don't think we have 195 at the crank.

TricoloreSF said:
You have to admit that's a bit ironic no?
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I don't believe I've implied that for my needs the bike is underpowered , or that I don't the bike, I just doubt the numbers Ducati claims...so, no I don't see much of irony in that.
But I am surprised to see how many people seem to accept factory numbers without any questions...
 
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