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You're absolutely correct. It's completely IMHO. My apologies for neglecting to put that in.
1199 R Superleggera
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You're absolutely correct. It's completely IMHO. My apologies for neglecting to put that in.
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The speculation about whether or not it's worth it is dependent upon Ducati being completely honest with the specs. Guaranteed there's a lot of very fine changes to the bike that add up to something greater than what they've mentioned. And there's a lot of changes that don't lend themselves to marketing hype (like code changes in the electronics). I suspect they're being very conservative with what they've claimed and that the Superleggera is going to be far better than even the alluring specs they've provided would suggest.
As for whether or not building a Superleggera on your own is prudent: every flurking aftermarket part I've put on my bike has had issues (including a couple failures), so there's no way I'd trust that a 3rd party has done enough R&D and Quality Assurance to ensure safety and reliability--ESPECIALLY with uber-lightweight parts. Add to that the difficulty of finding (and the expense paying for) a competent mechanic, the difficulty with finding a competent (and local) electronics guru who won't blow your engine, bugger reliability or jack up rideability trying to squeeze HP, a complete loss of warranty and nearly a complete loss of all the money dumped into the project come time for resale, and, sorry--the Superleggera is a bargain.
To indulge in a little optimistic conjecture about the significance of this bike: it doesn't take a genius to figure out that Ducati VERY pissed about their recent racing results. But if you factor in 1) record sales revenues, 2) deep pockets (if needed) from their parent company and, most importantly, 3) an extremely competitive CEO with octane coursing through ferocious and calculating veins--god damn, Ducati could just very well go medieval on the grid next season. A bit of a stretch, perhaps, but if Ducati starts winning championships, screw being a unicorn--anyone who gets their gloves on a Superleggera will own the Minotaur of modern motorbikes.
All of the above doesn't even touch upon the value of owning the BADDEST MOTORCYCLE EVER SOLD TO MERE MORTALS!!!!!
As for whether or not building a Superleggera on your own is prudent: every flurking aftermarket part I've put on my bike has had issues (including a couple failures), so there's no way I'd trust that a 3rd party has done enough R&D and Quality Assurance to ensure safety and reliability--ESPECIALLY with uber-lightweight parts. Add to that the difficulty of finding (and the expense paying for) a competent mechanic, the difficulty with finding a competent (and local) electronics guru who won't blow your engine, bugger reliability or jack up rideability trying to squeeze HP, a complete loss of warranty and nearly a complete loss of all the money dumped into the project come time for resale, and, sorry--the Superleggera is a bargain.
To indulge in a little optimistic conjecture about the significance of this bike: it doesn't take a genius to figure out that Ducati VERY pissed about their recent racing results. But if you factor in 1) record sales revenues, 2) deep pockets (if needed) from their parent company and, most importantly, 3) an extremely competitive CEO with octane coursing through ferocious and calculating veins--god damn, Ducati could just very well go medieval on the grid next season. A bit of a stretch, perhaps, but if Ducati starts winning championships, screw being a unicorn--anyone who gets their gloves on a Superleggera will own the Minotaur of modern motorbikes.
All of the above doesn't even touch upon the value of owning the BADDEST MOTORCYCLE EVER SOLD TO MERE MORTALS!!!!!
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Amen, brother!
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Sorry Anti but not in full agreement with you this time.
I don't discount the bike, however the price of admission is out of range except for the exclusiveness IMHO.
As for electronic improvements, I can't see why they can not be loaded into any other Pani.
I don't discount the bike, however the price of admission is out of range except for the exclusiveness IMHO.
As for electronic improvements, I can't see why they can not be loaded into any other Pani.
I have to agree with Anti on this one. Ducati is not letting the cat out of the bag just yet. We, as outsiders, can speculate to our hearts content on what makes the bike so radically different, but the truth of the matter is that only Ducati knows at this point and nothing will be made fully available until the bike is released. A press release is nothing and is certainly subject to change should Ducati wish to and I dunno about you, but I am pretty sure that Ducati has gained very valuable experience racing the pani and has put exactly what they need into the SL to be competitive...or so they hope!
Keep in mind, from an s to an r, ecu tuning is different taking into account the use of titanium in the engine and other components specific to the r (i.e. the rev limit change, flywheel, etc). Therefore, it would not only seem illogical to speculate on what the SL is capable of at this particular moment or assume what can be transferred to the regular models, but fool hearty at best.
Long story short, I will bet my last dollar that things are still changing and will continue to do so until the bike goes into production. Also, keep in mind that Ducati did offer a Super Sport Kit for the Pani, who is to say that parts from the SL will not be available for the general population to purchase down the road. It will probably cost us our "first borns, your nuts, etc", but should be pretty interesting though.
Bottom line, people thought the Desmo was crazy when Ducati released it, but they were all sold and I have no doubt that the SL do the same.
Just my 0.02 cents
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It's difficult to make an argument that the price is too much when there is nothing else like it readily available. What other manufacturer is selling a borderline MotoGP power/weight ratio bike with this level of electronics and componentry for under $65k? Honda's non-existent rumored bike will supposedly retail at more than $100k.
Regarding the software, in order to utilize this model-specific software on another Panigale you would first need to purchase the rights to that software (good luck), acquire and install all of the corresponding hardware, and spec out the bike to meet the exact build specs of the SL. I'd hate to see what happened to your bike when you load software coded to operate an engine with titanium con roads, double ring high compression pistons, a lightened crank shaft with tungsten inserts, and a 1000 RPM higher rev limit.
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I don't get the whole price and value debate.
Dislike the paint, critique the spec, but the price is what it is.
Geez....
Dislike the paint, critique the spec, but the price is what it is.
Geez....
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Quick question, anyone on the forum going to Bologna to see the bike in person?
I was hoping my invitation included airfare and hotel
i passed there on my way back from Mugello when i finally got to my invite! on a sunday evening ... grrrr....
as the R is a better bike then the S, so will the SL be wuit something different and could wipe away all the bad noise that the stock pani has gotten... just + 10bhp and - 14 pounds in that configuration will be a major difference...
On they R they stuck on some carbon bits and changed the engine internals to TI to make sure it does not blow... the R should be the SPS version . The SL is what the bayliss was... don't worry, there will be wheelie control and lean sensors available soon ...
if i d not have mine, i don't think the 70K would be a complete rip off.. expensive, yes! ripp off , not really.. the thing i fear most of missing , is that the engine/crankcase/swingarm will be diffferent to get different flex characteristics... that combo sounds pritty dounting...
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i passed there on my way back from Mugello when i finally got to my invite! on a sunday evening ... grrrr....
as the R is a better bike then the S, so will the SL be wuit something different and could wipe away all the bad noise that the stock pani has gotten... just + 10bhp and - 14 pounds in that configuration will be a major difference...
don't worry, there will be wheelie control and lean sensors available soon ...
if i d not have mine, i don't think the 70K would be a complete rip off.. expensive, yes! ripp off , not really.. the thing i fear most of missing , is that the engine/crankcase/swingarm will be diffferent to get different flex characteristics... that combo sounds pritty dounting...
+1
Don't forget that a rough estimate of power to weight, 6lbs. Is 1 BHp. 35 to 40 lbs. lighter is quite a gain in acceleration when looked at like that. If it is putting out at the crank 215 to 220bhp, add to that the 6 to 7bhp in weight savings, and the SL becomes a very exclusive bike by any standard. Actually it should be categorized as a rocket ship on two wheels.
Anti is absolutely correct.
But there's still more to the story that most people just won't grasp. AT ALL.
If one doesn't value the machine as a stand alone item. Then move on and stop whinging. IMO.
Who was it that said everybody knows the cost of everything, but nobody understands the value of anything. Might have been Oscar Wild?
As for electronic improvements, they may not be able to be loaded onto any other 1199 at all, and may take some reconfiguring for varying reasons.
All of which will likely cost you in terms of components and development.
The numbers can start adding up quickly. At the end of the day you won't have any resale value.
The price of admission to the club with the SL is easily a bargain.
And there's the resale value to factor in, in maybe 25-30 years time if you can think that far ahead.
That's the time frame you're likely to be looking at.
You missed out the heads out of the equation.
From the official blurb, it seems that they've got smaller combustion chambers to push up compression to 0ver 13:1
Try buying them or anything like that, anywhere on this planet?
Not to mention the SL crank is 395 grams lighter than the R crank.
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That the biggest ........ I have read in while . I find it a shame that people buy into that . My local dealer gave me the price of admission yesterday . If I'm interested I need to put my name forward for approval if I am then approved I have ten days to pay a deposit .
I don't approve of their bike yet .
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Has always been the issue with the 1199 motor . Slightly longer custom con rods can also achieve the same results . This is what I would be doing to a standard 1199 motor .
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That would be an accomplishment to melt a carbon fairing.
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or burn it...you know what I mean.
Seems every ducati I have ever owned is fine for about 2K miles then the oil leaks start and all the other issues. How about more R&D on fixing those problems rather than making a super expensive bike no one can afford????
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I under stand the point if your intended use was mostly tracking, however my perspctive takes into account my intended usage.
The value to me would determen the price I am willing to pay. I doubt this could or should be considered an investment.
Not whining, just going putting my thoughts down. If money was no object I would have already ordered, however I am not there so I have to figure what I could do with the money. SL vs investments.
The value to me would determen the price I am willing to pay. I doubt this could or should be considered an investment.
Not whining, just going putting my thoughts down. If money was no object I would have already ordered, however I am not there so I have to figure what I could do with the money. SL vs investments.
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In the past, have Ducati ever been conservative with their claims?
I don't know the answer, just asking the question.....
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under-promise and over-deliver has not been Ducati's MO in the past, why should it be now?
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