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Couldn t agree more ..
1199 R Superleggera
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Couldn t agree more ..
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Anyone know if Ducati Chile/Asphalt and Rubber's new claims (22lbs lighter and 205hp, not 40lbs lighter and 220hp) are correct? If so, I'm eating my original words and the overpromise/underdeliver camp is right.
The upcoming Ducati 1199 Superleggera continues to leak onto the internet in photo form, though this time we’re getting a little help from Ducati Chile, with the distributor listing some key figures along with its images: 205+ hp in racing trim & 166 kg at the curb. Confirming what we saw in a previous photo, the Superleggera will come decked out in a very “Desmosedici” red and white Ducati Corse livery.
In addition to these studio-quality photos, we also dug up what looks to be the SuperLeggera’s weight reductions (after the jump), listed by part and in comparison to the Ducati 1199 Panigale R. In total, the figures show the Supperleggera tipping the scales at 342 lbs dry, roughly 22 lbs less than the Panigale R.
Depending on whether Ducati Chile’s 166 kg curb weight figure is with or without fuel, the Superleggera could be a far cry from the 40 lbs we heard earlier this month (not to mention a lower horsepower figure than we were told). Still, Ducati’s new dream machine lives up its name, and is super light when compared to its homologation-ready cousin. More photos are waiting for you after the jump.
Weight Reductions by Part:
Carbon Fiber Fairings and Assorted Pieces: -1.0kg / -2.2 lbs
Magnesium Alloy Monocoque Frame: -1.0kg / -2.2 lbs
Carbon Fiber Rear Subframe: -1.2 kg / -2.7 lbs
Titanium Exhaust System: -2.5kg / -5.5 lbs
Forged and Machined Magnesium Wheels: -1.0kg / -2.2lbs
Lithium-Ion Battery: -2.0 kg / -4.4lbs
Custom Front Fork and Rear Shock: 1.4 Kg / -3.1 lbs
Superbike Pistons: -194 g / -.4 lbs
Tungsten-Balanced Crankshaft: -396 g / -.9 lbs
WSBK Chain and Rear Sprocket, and Various Carbon Fiber Parts, Fasteners, and Machined-from-Billet Components: -1.3 kg / -2.9 lbs
The upcoming Ducati 1199 Superleggera continues to leak onto the internet in photo form, though this time we’re getting a little help from Ducati Chile, with the distributor listing some key figures along with its images: 205+ hp in racing trim & 166 kg at the curb. Confirming what we saw in a previous photo, the Superleggera will come decked out in a very “Desmosedici” red and white Ducati Corse livery.
In addition to these studio-quality photos, we also dug up what looks to be the SuperLeggera’s weight reductions (after the jump), listed by part and in comparison to the Ducati 1199 Panigale R. In total, the figures show the Supperleggera tipping the scales at 342 lbs dry, roughly 22 lbs less than the Panigale R.
Depending on whether Ducati Chile’s 166 kg curb weight figure is with or without fuel, the Superleggera could be a far cry from the 40 lbs we heard earlier this month (not to mention a lower horsepower figure than we were told). Still, Ducati’s new dream machine lives up its name, and is super light when compared to its homologation-ready cousin. More photos are waiting for you after the jump.
Weight Reductions by Part:
Carbon Fiber Fairings and Assorted Pieces: -1.0kg / -2.2 lbs
Magnesium Alloy Monocoque Frame: -1.0kg / -2.2 lbs
Carbon Fiber Rear Subframe: -1.2 kg / -2.7 lbs
Titanium Exhaust System: -2.5kg / -5.5 lbs
Forged and Machined Magnesium Wheels: -1.0kg / -2.2lbs
Lithium-Ion Battery: -2.0 kg / -4.4lbs
Custom Front Fork and Rear Shock: 1.4 Kg / -3.1 lbs
Superbike Pistons: -194 g / -.4 lbs
Tungsten-Balanced Crankshaft: -396 g / -.9 lbs
WSBK Chain and Rear Sprocket, and Various Carbon Fiber Parts, Fasteners, and Machined-from-Billet Components: -1.3 kg / -2.9 lbs
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Well Ducati only claim "in excess of 200hp"" So I am thinking that A&R maybe right..
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The 1201 website states 205+ in race form. If I recall, the weights are also in race form - so if that means without mirrors, lights, etc the weight savings comes down quite a bit in street form.
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On the 1201 site they indicate how the components used on the SL will trickle down to other future models - this is, of course, why they do these things (develop and sell "special bikes") to be able to eventually have better components for everyone within their model line up (witness the desmosedici)
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Well,
As you know , i ve gone through some serious modding on an R for the last year. In some departments as suspension and brakes about as far as you can go.
The bike has the same level of and Carbon everywhere and mag wheels and has a kerb weight of 185 kgs.
It carries the Pro pipe that is not titanium and delivers a healthy 188-192 bhp at the wheel in SAE mode depending on the dyno it’s on.
I ve ridden it on some quit different and challenging tracks this year in it’s different stages of development, including Spa, hockenheim, Le Mans and recently Mugello.
Now looking at the SL, of course the question that I ask myself is : should I regret not having had the ops to buy this one? And how does the price stack up in comp to what I spent.
Do I regret having built mine? Not at all. If only that mine is a true 001/001 limited series and exceeds the SL specs on some very important parts. And just having been able to pull this project off, now looking the way it does, I m over the moon with the result.
Now : is my bike a better bike? There I must say : No. The SL specs make it a better bike as the engine is a better engine. And as the electronics are a better package. And with that weight (166kg = street package) loose the lights, paddockstand, fan tail unit and you loose another 4kgs and you have a weight that is almost unreachable without importing the ultra trick bits.
Do not underestimate the quality of those forks that the SL carries. If they carry the TTX cartridges then they’re absolute top of the line.
Where do I stand on spending? Well let me tell you that the price for the SL package is not a bad package. All this considering that I ve been lucky to have very knowledgable people who have built this one much of the time in their own time at warp speed and not the hourly ducati dealer mechanic rate. Also , much of the trick parts have been acquired at ‘ do you a foavour’ prices.
And then there is the risk to develop it. Buying parts that do not fit. Do not underestimate an project like this as you can loose K’s of usd very rapidly.
What can we expect from the SL now we know the specs. We don’t know yet if the ecu’s fuelling will be adaptable as is the case with the SSTK version of the 1199. If it is : Expect that bike to make 196-202 bhp at the rear wheel with : 2500 km on the clock, mapping nr 3 in a years time.
I challenge everyone to ride an R in anger and keep the throttle pinned and not be impressed from waw to scared shitless. A (lighter, smaller) friend of mine with similar spec bike hit 304 to 312 GPS’ kph at the end of Mugello straight last week and did a best time of 2:08.. a GP’d 210bhp desmo with an ex IDM champ as owner/rider did a 2:02 and some ultra souped beemer racers did 1:58 as best time over 3 days. Out of 200 riders, only 2 managed a time below 2:00 with 60% of them 2:08-2:13… I did a 2:15 and the worst time was 2:32.
If the SL did a 1:54, then that is blindingly fast. And just as all pani are capable of blistering times ( just look at SSTK results ) this one seems to outdo them all by a wide margin.
So what I like about this bike is that compared to the R, they really outdid themselves with practically everything they could do. As to power/weight it seems there is absolutely nothing they did not put on . in fact this bike will have very close to RS performance for 40% of the price. That is the only way to look at it.
IS it the pani of the future? Perhaps. Only if the days of the 230bhp/4 engines per race weekend- superbikes are over. If they have to develop the 1199 to current WSBK rules to become competitive, then that bike will need structural changes. Some of which have been seen on the latest Alstare changes made: the rear subframe to allow fuel to be replaced with room for the airbox and weight to be shifted. And a wider frame to increase the airbox volume. But as it is not yet clear what the impact of the rules on how to homologate a bike for WSBK will be, for the moment I’m sure the SL is exactly as much of a SBK street bike you can build.
So perhaps I can think the other way round. If I was to do a RR project being able to start ffrom the SL instead of the R, would I do so. Well : I guess I would. I still would do the designjob as that is what I want. And perhaps I would do the FGR forks update. Something I would certainly change is the radiator/cooling setup. This system is just not good enough and will cause 10% loss of power when ridden hard. 100°C+ temps is just not a good thing. Need a little extra : change the GP4XR to GP4RR calipers. Change the disks to superstock disks or T drives.
I m now planning to develop the bike further this winter to SSTK trim. Probably including an SBK pipe/engine/mapping job. This whould bring the 202 at the wheel but especially get rid of the 4 to 7k pickup issues.. I’m very curious as to how much of the electronics will find there way in the 2014 Corse SSTK catalog. Extending the DDA range of sensors is on the books as well.. I also expect a lot from the RS throttle conversion reducing the 85° twist to 60°
And who knows. Perhaps a ‘lets loose all possible weight’ exercise may be part of the plans.
All this said, I know that the most performance gains will be gotten from the geometry setup program that is planned. For perhaps 1% of the whole budget….
So to conclude my pov on the SL : from someone who’s been the project/development road and paid the bills, I tell you : for those wanting one : get one. This package will give you a Ducati as there has never been one before. And one with a 2 year warranty.
For those wanting/preferring a Desmo : of course you want a desmo.. for all the obvious reasons. But let’s face the reality of owning one. Tires : no production since the launch. So if you order the special size, they have been laying in a warehouse for almost 5 years now. Parts if something breaks? Outerwordly expensive and having to wait for months. And very few Desmo make the DTC –less claimed 200bhp . Most do just 170. Allbeit in a wonderful way
All this said: George, I know you did a better job! Lol !
As you know , i ve gone through some serious modding on an R for the last year. In some departments as suspension and brakes about as far as you can go.
The bike has the same level of and Carbon everywhere and mag wheels and has a kerb weight of 185 kgs.
It carries the Pro pipe that is not titanium and delivers a healthy 188-192 bhp at the wheel in SAE mode depending on the dyno it’s on.
I ve ridden it on some quit different and challenging tracks this year in it’s different stages of development, including Spa, hockenheim, Le Mans and recently Mugello.
Now looking at the SL, of course the question that I ask myself is : should I regret not having had the ops to buy this one? And how does the price stack up in comp to what I spent.
Do I regret having built mine? Not at all. If only that mine is a true 001/001 limited series and exceeds the SL specs on some very important parts. And just having been able to pull this project off, now looking the way it does, I m over the moon with the result.
Now : is my bike a better bike? There I must say : No. The SL specs make it a better bike as the engine is a better engine. And as the electronics are a better package. And with that weight (166kg = street package) loose the lights, paddockstand, fan tail unit and you loose another 4kgs and you have a weight that is almost unreachable without importing the ultra trick bits.
Do not underestimate the quality of those forks that the SL carries. If they carry the TTX cartridges then they’re absolute top of the line.
Where do I stand on spending? Well let me tell you that the price for the SL package is not a bad package. All this considering that I ve been lucky to have very knowledgable people who have built this one much of the time in their own time at warp speed and not the hourly ducati dealer mechanic rate. Also , much of the trick parts have been acquired at ‘ do you a foavour’ prices.
And then there is the risk to develop it. Buying parts that do not fit. Do not underestimate an project like this as you can loose K’s of usd very rapidly.
What can we expect from the SL now we know the specs. We don’t know yet if the ecu’s fuelling will be adaptable as is the case with the SSTK version of the 1199. If it is : Expect that bike to make 196-202 bhp at the rear wheel with : 2500 km on the clock, mapping nr 3 in a years time.
I challenge everyone to ride an R in anger and keep the throttle pinned and not be impressed from waw to scared shitless. A (lighter, smaller) friend of mine with similar spec bike hit 304 to 312 GPS’ kph at the end of Mugello straight last week and did a best time of 2:08.. a GP’d 210bhp desmo with an ex IDM champ as owner/rider did a 2:02 and some ultra souped beemer racers did 1:58 as best time over 3 days. Out of 200 riders, only 2 managed a time below 2:00 with 60% of them 2:08-2:13… I did a 2:15 and the worst time was 2:32.
If the SL did a 1:54, then that is blindingly fast. And just as all pani are capable of blistering times ( just look at SSTK results ) this one seems to outdo them all by a wide margin.
So what I like about this bike is that compared to the R, they really outdid themselves with practically everything they could do. As to power/weight it seems there is absolutely nothing they did not put on . in fact this bike will have very close to RS performance for 40% of the price. That is the only way to look at it.
IS it the pani of the future? Perhaps. Only if the days of the 230bhp/4 engines per race weekend- superbikes are over. If they have to develop the 1199 to current WSBK rules to become competitive, then that bike will need structural changes. Some of which have been seen on the latest Alstare changes made: the rear subframe to allow fuel to be replaced with room for the airbox and weight to be shifted. And a wider frame to increase the airbox volume. But as it is not yet clear what the impact of the rules on how to homologate a bike for WSBK will be, for the moment I’m sure the SL is exactly as much of a SBK street bike you can build.
So perhaps I can think the other way round. If I was to do a RR project being able to start ffrom the SL instead of the R, would I do so. Well : I guess I would. I still would do the designjob as that is what I want. And perhaps I would do the FGR forks update. Something I would certainly change is the radiator/cooling setup. This system is just not good enough and will cause 10% loss of power when ridden hard. 100°C+ temps is just not a good thing. Need a little extra : change the GP4XR to GP4RR calipers. Change the disks to superstock disks or T drives.
I m now planning to develop the bike further this winter to SSTK trim. Probably including an SBK pipe/engine/mapping job. This whould bring the 202 at the wheel but especially get rid of the 4 to 7k pickup issues.. I’m very curious as to how much of the electronics will find there way in the 2014 Corse SSTK catalog. Extending the DDA range of sensors is on the books as well.. I also expect a lot from the RS throttle conversion reducing the 85° twist to 60°
And who knows. Perhaps a ‘lets loose all possible weight’ exercise may be part of the plans.
All this said, I know that the most performance gains will be gotten from the geometry setup program that is planned. For perhaps 1% of the whole budget….
So to conclude my pov on the SL : from someone who’s been the project/development road and paid the bills, I tell you : for those wanting one : get one. This package will give you a Ducati as there has never been one before. And one with a 2 year warranty.
For those wanting/preferring a Desmo : of course you want a desmo.. for all the obvious reasons. But let’s face the reality of owning one. Tires : no production since the launch. So if you order the special size, they have been laying in a warehouse for almost 5 years now. Parts if something breaks? Outerwordly expensive and having to wait for months. And very few Desmo make the DTC –less claimed 200bhp . Most do just 170. Allbeit in a wonderful way
All this said: George, I know you did a better job! Lol !
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- New York
Those are some stupidly fast lap times 
I think I would show up and then pedal my sorry ass home..lol.
The nice thing about going to official GP tracks is the fast people show up. I'm looking forward to winter in Losail just to see who shows up. Last year we had Bradly smith and Anthony West to play with along with a couple of BSB riders. Lots to learn at those track days
I think I would show up and then pedal my sorry ass home..lol.The nice thing about going to official GP tracks is the fast people show up. I'm looking forward to winter in Losail just to see who shows up. Last year we had Bradly smith and Anthony West to play with along with a couple of BSB riders. Lots to learn at those track days
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So is this info anymore accurate than other previous rumours/conjecture and whispers?? How can you mention that "some blogs got bad info" etc and then just throw out a rumour from who knows where??? Ducati are saying bike is in "excess of 200Hp" .. Lets go with that...Please....
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- Bangalore, India
I am going through the site and can't see any indication of this.. maybe I am missing something.
My feeling was that with the EVO rules the motor parts like cylinders, pistons, crankshafts, camshaft, con rods and crank case are to be left as stock. With cost cutting being a factor too and if they plan to race the R, I am not sure if they can use the SL motor in it. My guess is only the SL suspension would replace what the R has. I could be wrong here though..
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last paragraph of Design:
".......1199 super leggera sets new standards of motorcycle construction paving the way for the entire Superbike line up in Ducatis never ending quest to advance performance"
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- Bangalore, India
Good catch.. in that case looks like the Tungsten balanced crank and the SBK aluminium alloy piston would probably make its way just to the R to be able to run with the EVO rules changes for 2015.
As far as the suspension goes, my feeling is that the race suspension would probably be SL exclusive but they would fit those on an R with the SL motor in it and run that bike in the races as there is no limitation on suspensions.
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- Jan 19, 2013
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- Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Because superbike rules allow the complete suspension to be swapped out, so there's no need to put real high end parts on the homologated bike, which has always been the purpose of the R. Ducati also has to commit to 2000 bikes. Super high end suspension drives cost up and could make selling 2000 bikes difficult.
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Then are we agreeing DES isnt to the standard needed???
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