1199 R Superleggera

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Trauma said:
The SL is really an R with a couple of light weight shocks and Akra. Not even close to the Desmo as a like upgrade from existing bikes. It's way over priced - but it will still sell, and be worth 30K in 5 years at most.
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ahhh, yes....resale value......if you ride the bike....it plummets - but if you're riding it, you won't care :)
 
Trauma said:
The SL is really an R with a couple of light weight shocks and Akra. Not even close to the Desmo as a like upgrade from existing bikes. It's way over priced - but it will still sell, and be worth 30K in 5 years at most.
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The issue with cost is one of amortising the development and part cost over the production run. It's a big issue in the auto industry that I'm very familar with, and forgive me using transmissions as an example ,but it's info that I have the most access to :) . Starting with part cost, a standard one-off prototype aluminum transmission housing, for example, runs about ~$25-35k, a single gear is about $1500-$3000... adding up to a prototype transmission cost that is in the neighborhood of $600k to $1mill for a single transmission. An entire 6spd automatic transmission is about $1500-3000 in a production run of 450,000 units. That $3000 gear drops to about $5-10 for example. Point here is that cost to Ducati of the 500 unit run of magnesium parts is just astonomical because they do not get mass production prices on those quatities. Relating to the magnesium frame parts, I've had a magnesium trans housing quoted at over $50k for one. Now at 500 hundred units, that would obviously come down a lot, but it's not going from 50k to 1k in only 500 units.

Now the engineering cost for designing that transmission is around $30 million, not including validation testing and beta testing units (quite a few million more). This R&D cost is also usually amortized over the production run. The smaller the production run, the more of that engineering cost that must be recouped per unit sold.

The point in all the above, is just that there is really probably little to no profit margin on the SL (they may even be taking a loss like Bugatti did on the Veyron). So do i think the bike is overpriced? Well, from a value to the rider standpoint, in my case yes, not worth it to me at all. Do i think it's priced fairly for what Ducati has put into it? Also yes, it's a great value given the reasoning above.
 
transdesigner said:
The issue with cost is one of amortising the development and part cost over the production run. It's a big issue in the auto industry that I'm very familar with, and forgive me using transmissions as an example ,but it's info that I have the most access to :) . Starting with part cost, a standard one-off prototype aluminum transmission housing, for example, runs about ~$25-35k, a single gear is about $1500-$3000... adding up to a prototype transmission cost that is in the neighborhood of $600k to $1mill for a single transmission. An entire 6spd automatic transmission is about $1500-3000 in a production run of 450,000 units. That $3000 gear drops to about $5-10 for example. Point here is that cost to Ducati of the 500 unit run of magnesium parts is just astonomical because they do not get mass production prices on those quatities. Relating to the magnesium frame parts, I've had a magnesium trans housing quoted at over $50k for one. Now at 500 hundred units, that would obviously come down a lot, but it's not going from 50k to 1k in only 500 units.

Now the engineering cost for designing that transmission is around $30 million, not including validation testing and beta testing units (quite a few million more). This R&D cost is also usually amortized over the production run. The smaller the production run, the more of that engineering cost that must be recouped per unit sold.

The point in all the above, is just that there is really probably little to no profit margin on the SL (they may even be taking a loss like Bugatti did on the Veyron). So do i think the bike is overpriced? Well, from a value to the rider standpoint, in my case yes, not worth it to me at all. Do i think it's priced fairly for what Ducati has put into it? Also yes, it's a great value given the reasoning above.
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Just thank Ducati for the bargain :)
 
transdesigner said:
The issue with cost is one of amortising the development and part cost over the production run. It's a big issue in the auto industry that I'm very familar with, and forgive me using transmissions as an example ,but it's info that I have the most access to :) . Starting with part cost, a standard one-off prototype aluminum transmission housing, for example, runs about ~$25-35k, a single gear is about $1500-$3000... adding up to a prototype transmission cost that is in the neighborhood of $600k to $1mill for a single transmission. An entire 6spd automatic transmission is about $1500-3000 in a production run of 450,000 units. That $3000 gear drops to about $5-10 for example. Point here is that cost to Ducati of the 500 unit run of magnesium parts is just astonomical because they do not get mass production prices on those quatities. Relating to the magnesium frame parts, I've had a magnesium trans housing quoted at over $50k for one. Now at 500 hundred units, that would obviously come down a lot, but it's not going from 50k to 1k in only 500 units.

Now the engineering cost for designing that transmission is around $30 million, not including validation testing and beta testing units (quite a few million more). This R&D cost is also usually amortized over the production run. The smaller the production run, the more of that engineering cost that must be recouped per unit sold.

The point in all the above, is just that there is really probably little to no profit margin on the SL (they may even be taking a loss like Bugatti did on the Veyron). So do i think the bike is overpriced? Well, from a value to the rider standpoint, in my case yes, not worth it to me at all. Do i think it's priced fairly for what Ducati has put into it? Also yes, it's a great value given the reasoning above.
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Its still damm cool to own one. Granted it would basically just be a dick show at the local bike event...But who cares. You have a bike that you can be 99% sure no one else will show up with....
 
RD16RR said:
LOL's - if thats what floats your boat....why not ? :)
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The guys/girls that can afford to drop some $$$ on thats kind of bike prob dont even blink at the cost...The majority of us would be a bit stretched out. Somebody posted a pic of his Ducati with his Lamborghini a while back...That guy would buy a SL on a whim and not even have to run the numbers on it.
 
NOLA said:
The guys/girls that can afford to drop some $$$ on thats kind of bike prob dont even blink at the cost...The majority of us would be a bit stretched out. Somebody posted a pic of his Ducati with his Lamborghini a while back...That guy would buy a SL on a whim and not even have to run the numbers on it.
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Isn't it funny how people draw such conclusions so readily.... So the guy that has a Hyundai cant afford it???:rolleyes:
 
Stw said:
Isn't it funny how people draw such conclusions so readily.... So the guy that has a Hyundai cant afford it???:rolleyes:
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One, the guy with the Hyundai sure is less likely to have "toys"
Two, no.
 
Stw said:
I have seen people make this assumption and extrapolation many times... totally flawed... Just sayin':)
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I read a statistic that the "average" person that owns a $250k car has, on average, $21.5 million in cash assets. so the generalization that that if you have a lambo you can afford a 65k bike is, i agree, a generalization, but one that has a very high likelihood of being correct lol
 
transdesigner said:
I read a statistic that the "average" person that owns a $250k car has, on average, $21.5 million in cash assets. so the generalization that that if you have a lambo you can afford a 65k bike is, i agree, a generalization, but one that has a very high likelihood of being correct lol
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There's a difference between being able to afford it and being able to justify the purchase. ;)
 
some people can afford very expensive toys, but may not be into cars or bikes, and drive a mechanically maintained but rusty 20 year old Honda, and then go to Rodeo Drive and have it valet parked while goes and buys a $100 dinner for himself every night. It's possible, IMO. Have I seen this happen? No.
 
Fragile said:
some people can afford very expensive toys, but may not be into cars or bikes, and drive a mechanically maintained but rusty 20 year old Honda, and then go to Rodeo Drive and have it valet parked while goes and buys a $100 dinner for himself every night. It's possible, IMO. Have I seen this happen? No.
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Larry David drives a Prius

:cool:
 
STW ... isn't it great that it takes 45K to imrove on your Base? ... but don't worry, it will be a better bike... a much better bike... much being very little if you compare it amongst others.... and let me tell you from experience that putting a bike of that level together is utterly costly and risky ... i think Transdesigner hit the nail full on the head...
 
kope999R said:
STW ... isn't it great that it takes 45K to imrove on your Base? ... but don't worry, it will be a better bike... a much better bike... much being very little if you compare it amongst others.... and let me tell you from experience that putting a bike of that level together is utterly costly and risky ... i think Transdesigner hit the nail full on the head...
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Kope... I never claimed my bike with additions would be the exact equivalent....But given my level it would be near as dammit the same :):) My point is that the bike is not worth $45000 more..thats my point..
 
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