1199 R Superleggera

What it boils down to....if you want to buy something special chances are the price will be as well. If you don't like that, just don't buy it

double0 said:

I don't think his point was the $$$ amount difference but more so of something costing 2 or 3 times that of a base model.

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Yes but essentially they lightened the car by roughly 8% (i think) and changed the gear box and exhaust for the $100k i think because bikes are relatively cheap to being with seeing a differential of 3X will be hard.

Trauma said:

I am trying to reason purchasing the SL over a highly modified base. (1099).

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what are you considering doing to your base to get it up to this spec as i think it will be hard to achieve the gains for a lot less then it will cost to purchase and then you will still be left with a stock base with lot's of bling.

I know which i would prefer

reganc said:

what are you considering doing to your base to get it up to this spec as i think it will be hard to achieve the gains for a lot less then it will cost to purchase and then you will still be left with a stock base with lot's of bling.

I know which i would prefer

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I have no intention of trying to get my bike to an SL, and you would have to start with an R to be fair anyway, because of the inertial engine components. The bottom line, people will buy the Sl because it's an SL, not because its a bit lighter or a few more horses than a base. It's the because that you are paying 3 times as much, not because there is bang for the buck there.

Ok..My point about the SL is this....its not worth a $46000 premium over a base

Ohlins FGRT $2800
TTX du930 $1500
Install/Set up $500
Ohlins Steering damper $350
Power commander $300
Tune $1000
DP Carbon $3300
Akra pipe $3450
RearsetS $1200
Race Seat $250

This adds up to $14650 (Very approx) ..add a brand new base at $19000 ... $33650.... Don't get me wrong.... I am not proposing to do this...But my point is that its possible..for half the price to make a bike that too all intents and purposes is the equal of the SL...For half the price... If the specs of the SL was the R ..then it makes more sense..Retail at $30000... Great deal.... But...To me... totally subjectively...its not worth it....

I think a lot of people are missing the point of this bike. Yes the performance is unsurpassed by any other STOCK street bike. Yes it's an engineering breakthrough. Yes it's fast and light. Yes it is a technological masterpiece.

But most importantly, it's exclusive. It sells to egos. Whether you like it or not, that's where the bulk of the pricing structure is aimed towards. That's why we have Ferrari's and Lamborghini's in this world. Hell, that's why there are Ducati's in the world.

Stw said:

Ok..My point about the SL is this....its not worth a $46000 premium over a base

Ohlins FGRT $2800
TTX du930 $1500
Install/Set up $500
Ohlins Steering damper $350
Power commander $300
Tune $1000
DP Carbon $3300
Akra pipe $3450
RearsetS $1200
Race Seat $250

This adds up to $14650 (Very approx) ..add a brand new base at $19000 ... $33650.... Don't get me wrong.... I am not proposing to do this...But my point is that its possible..for half the price to make a bike that too all intents and purposes is the equal of the SL...For half the price... If the specs of the SL was the R ..then it makes more sense..Retail at $30000... Great deal.... But...To me... totally subjectively...its not worth it....

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There's so much more missing on this list to even be close to an SL though. Forks are not the same as the fgrt203's. It's more of a wsbk spec ohlins fork which is more $$. The mag wheels are about $4k. Engine internals are gawd knows how much. Isn't the whole fairing made of carbon? Subframe as well?

$65k to dish out for a motorcycle is a lot. When taking into consideration the actual components put into this build, even if anyone was crazy enough to try n duplicate this build would easily realize that they would come very close to the price of an SL or maybe even surpass that point. Buying this from a dealer gives you a couple of advantages...

1) No headaches during the process of such a wild build and all the hick-ups one may encounter during the process. Perfect example here is Kope and his 1 off R. We can only imagine how much $$ he has put into his ridiculous build.

2) Factory warranty. If anyone was silly enough to attempt such a build, they would instantly void any warranty left by doing engine internal mods. At least with the SL you will have some kinda peace of mind for two years and not to mention the maintenance costs of the SL can't be any different than our current pani models unlike the outrageous costs n wait times for parts on the desmo.

These two important factors makes the SL a value in itself...for those that have the coin to dish out.

Stw said:

Ok..My point about the SL is this....its not worth a $46000 premium over a base

Ohlins FGRT $2800
TTX du930 $1500
Install/Set up $500
Ohlins Steering damper $350
Power commander $300
Tune $1000
DP Carbon $3300
Akra pipe $3450
RearsetS $1200
Race Seat $250

This adds up to $14650 (Very approx) ..add a brand new base at $19000 ... $33650.... Don't get me wrong.... I am not proposing to do this...But my point is that its possible..for half the price to make a bike that too all intents and purposes is the equal of the SL...For half the price... If the specs of the SL was the R ..then it makes more sense..Retail at $30000... Great deal.... But...To me... totally subjectively...its not worth it....

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i get your point but i don't think you can create this bike for $35k. Ducati have managed to knock 23lbs off the 1199R weight with the frame now in sand-cast magnesium alloy and the rear sub frame in carbon fibre, also the body work will be at least $6k from Ducati. The front forks are updated but unsure of cost plus there is a better electronics system and some engine upgrades along with a lot of other things i have probably forgotten to mention.

Kobe created one of the Ultimate 1199 bikes so i;m sure he could chime in and let people know the real world costs of actually trying to develop one of these bikes as essentially Ducati are already pushing the limits so extra power/weight gains going forward tend to cost a serious amount of $$$.

But as we say value is in the eye of the beholder and while i don't thing it's tremendous value i certainly see the appeal and I would consider one.

Stw said:

Ok..My point about the SL is this....its not worth a $46000 premium over a base

Ohlins FGRT $2800
TTX du930 $1500
Install/Set up $500
Ohlins Steering damper $350
Power commander $300
Tune $1000
DP Carbon $3300
Akra pipe $3450
RearsetS $1200
Race Seat $250

This adds up to $14650 (Very approx) ..add a brand new base at $19000 ... $33650.... Don't get me wrong.... I am not proposing to do this...But my point is that its possible..for half the price to make a bike that too all intents and purposes is the equal of the SL...For half the price... If the specs of the SL was the R ..then it makes more sense..Retail at $30000... Great deal.... But...To me... totally subjectively...its not worth it....

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You are leaving out the single most expensive piece if you want to build one yourself... Magnesium frame ~$30k-50k, plus a few hundred thousand in engineering design and testing behind that, which has to be recouped with only 500 units.

You will not logically be able to make a value argument for this bike, but if you try to, I think you are missing the point. If you based it on performance/dollar you'd always buy cars like Nissan GTRs, Corvetter ZR1s, mustang GT500s over cars that are 3x the price like Lambos, Aston Martins, Ferraris, etc. You could buy a Ultima GTR for ~$60k that out performs a $500k Zonda, yet people still buy the Zonda. The SL will sell out, just like the Ferrari Enzo cars of the world always sell out, debating whether or not they are "worth it" will just end in frustration IMO

transdesigner said:

You are leaving out the single most expensive piece if you want to build one yourself... Magnesium frame ~$30k-50k, plus a few hundred thousand in engineering design and testing behind that, which has to be recouped with only 500 units.

You will not logically be able to make a value argument for this bike, but if you try to, I think you are missing the point. If you based it on performance/dollar you'd always buy cars like Nissan GTRs, Corvetter ZR1s, mustang GT500sover cars that are 3x the price like Lambos, Aston Martins, Ferraris, etc. You could buy a Ultima GTR for ~$60k that out performs a $500k Zonda, yet people still buy the Zonda. The SL will sell out, just like the Ferrari Enzo cars of the world always sell out, debating whether or not they are "worth it" will just end in frustration IMO

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No doubt...

Stw said:

Ok..My point about the SL is this....its not worth a $46000 premium over a base

Ohlins FGRT $2800
TTX du930 $1500
Install/Set up $500
Ohlins Steering damper $350
Power commander $300
Tune $1000
DP Carbon $3300
Akra pipe $3450
RearsetS $1200
Race Seat $250

This adds up to $14650 (Very approx) ..add a brand new base at $19000 ... $33650.... Don't get me wrong.... I am not proposing to do this...But my point is that its possible..for half the price to make a bike that too all intents and purposes is the equal of the SL...For half the price... If the specs of the SL was the R ..then it makes more sense..Retail at $30000... Great deal.... But...To me... totally subjectively...its not worth it....

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You forgot to add labor, factory warranty and the price of "perceived" exclusivity.
Not to mention the cost of the fairings and subframes.

If you go the aftermarket route, generally speaking the "value" of the bike goes down, although it may be a technically better bike. But get a limited edition factory bike and..... you know where I'm going.

littlejohn said:

You forgot to add labor, factory warranty and the price of "perceived" exclusivity.
Not to mention the cost of the fairings and subframes.

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It wasn't meant to be exhaustive... but more of an exemplar....

Stw said:

It wasn't meant to be exhaustive... but more of an exemplar....

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True.. but your figures fell way short, even for a costing exercise

Personally.. I agree with you.. I don't really see the value in the SL. The point of diminishing returns started at the S for me ..
I would only get an SL for my occasional run to starbucks

littlejohn said:

.
I would only get an SL for my occasional run to starbucks

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...

transdesigner said:

You will not logically be able to make a value argument for this bike, but if you try to, I think you are missing the point. If you based it on performance/dollar you'd always buy cars like Nissan GTRs, Corvetter ZR1s, mustang GT500s over cars that are 3x the price like Lambos, Aston Martins, Ferraris, etc. You could buy a Ultima GTR for ~$60k that out performs a $500k Zonda, yet people still buy the Zonda. The SL will sell out, just like the Ferrari Enzo cars of the world always sell out, debating whether or not they are "worth it" will just end in frustration IMO

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I tend to disagree. Due to the subjective nature of an item's worth, value, when independent of all other variables, can be especially difficult to pinpoint through calculated methods. However, by comparing successor feature enhancements of previous products that have been tested on the market with analyses of public response to those products/enhancements, we can essentially triangulate projected value of future products. I do agree that purchasing based on this alone isn't necessarily in line with the romanticized perception of why a machine such as the SL should be purchased, but the question of an item's value certainly does warrant thought and discussion when a purchase is being contemplated - particularly so for those looking at this model as an item to be preserved and collected (gasp"¦I know, I know, merely stating the possibility of that occurring incites burning of eyes and gnashing of teeth).

SL Items

I read the list above but didn't see:

RS two ring slipper pistons;
RS racing piston rings;
SL thinner head gasket (thinner than R);
Internally balanced and knife edged RS crank;
Tungsten heavy metal (in lieu of Mallory) for balancing;
upgraded "blue" rod and crank bearings;
titanium exhaust valves (in lieu of inconel steel in R);
revised oil pump from RS;
spare set of race bodywork (painted)
SL carbon fiber OEM bodywork;
Magnesium airbox (in lieu of the OEM aluminum unit)
Titanium Ohlins rear shock spring;
Magnesium "trident" Marchesini wheels;
carbon fiber monoque subframe;

Did I forget anything else?

George Villar said:

I read the list above but didn't see:

RS two ring slipper pistons;
RS racing piston rings;
SL thinner head gasket (thinner than R);
Internally balanced and knife edged RS crank;
Tungsten heavy metal (in lieu of Mallory) for balancing;
upgraded "blue" rod and crank bearings;
titanium exhaust valves (in lieu of inconel steel in R);
revised oil pump from RS;
spare set of race bodywork (painted)
SL carbon fiber OEM bodywork;
Magnesium airbox (in lieu of the OEM aluminum unit)
Titanium Ohlins rear shock spring;
Magnesium "trident" Marchesini wheels;
carbon fiber monoque subframe;

Did I forget anything else?

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2 Titanium exhaust systems - road and track Akras
Sexy paint scheme
lightened/upgraded factory rearsets
Ti hardware throughout
Wheelie control / upgraded electronics

I think the list is very extensive.

You are all missing my point...Oh well....

Duck41 said:

I tend to disagree. Due to the subjective nature of an item's worth, value, when independent of all other variables, can be especially difficult to pinpoint through calculated methods. However, by comparing successor feature enhancements of previous products that have been tested on the market with analyses of public response to those products/enhancements, we can essentially triangulate projected value of future products. I do agree that purchasing based on this alone isn't necessarily in line with the romanticized perception of why a machine such as the SL should be purchased, but the question of an item's value certainly does warrant thought and discussion when a purchase is being contemplated - particularly so for those looking at this model as an item to be preserved and collected (gasp"¦I know, I know, merely stating the possibility of that occurring incites burning of eyes and gnashing of teeth).

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I actually don't think we disagree, because I do agree with what you're saying. My point was more on a pure performance/dollar and hardware cost basis. When you add in other factors like pedigree, prestige, luxury, etc. then it starts to make sense like you're saying. Even then though, some of these things are somewhat intangible. At my company we had a Ford Taurus SHO disassebled next to an Audi S4. If you try to focus on tangible reasons why the S4 is $25k (the cost of a whole other car) more than the SHO, it becomes difficult... The tangibles are they both are AWD, forced induction... the Ford is bigger, has more hp, and is actually better quality. The audi has a few more luxury features, but were does the extra $25,000 come from? The prestige, the better handling, the looks, the "image". And I agree with you on a high level comparison if you compare the Audi to a BMW 3.35is or the like, the price seems to make perfect sense. But when you see the parts disassembled on tables next to the Ford, you could be left scratching your head.

littlejohn said:

You forgot to add labor, factory warranty and the price of "perceived" exclusivity.
Not to mention the cost of the fairings and subframes.

If you go the aftermarket route, generally speaking the "value" of the bike goes down, although it may be a technically better bike. But get a limited edition factory bike and..... you know where I'm going.

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Not sure where the perceived bit comes from. I would say owning one of the limited 500 counts as exclusive in my dictionary.