1199 Sudden Engine Vibration on track...

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James has never heard of the duck test. If your Superquadro quacks like a bad water pump gear, has vibrations like a bad water pump gear, looks to have fragments of the water pump in the oil pan, then it’s probably the water pump gear.

Diagnosing engine vibrations and weird sounds on a forum is asinine.
 
You are not qualified to give him advice unless you are in A group. He'll spend his time reading your posts from last year in an attempt to insult you and use a lot of emojis in the process.
 
So got the engine cover off tonight and there's only a couple of teeth missing from the smaller water pump gear which is good news.

Removed the water pump itself and it looks ok. It is however, quite hard to turn by hand and Im sure this shouldn't be like this so will be ordering a new one. Not much play in the bearing though so still a bit of a mystery for where this vibration is coming from. I doubt a couple of teeth missing from that gear would cause it?

Are the 1199's prone to the generator bolt coming loose like the 916's were?


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So far that makes sense James and good thing you've caught it. I've not seen issues with the generator bolts coming loose. Vibration typically is an engine imbalance bottom assembly or with the 1199s indicator of rod bearings going.

You said there were no metallic brass colored shaving in the oil correct? I'd still recommend you drop the oil bag and look in the oil pickup for any indicator of bearings before you fire it back up. 🔥

While not likely if you have the leakdown test tools you can test just to validate there are no valve or ring sealing issues but I would think that would not be directly related to water pump itself.

Side not whenever I tear them apart I put the aftermarket water pump gear as steel from Kamna
 
Seth Vo said:
So far that makes sense James and good thing you've caught it. I've not seen issues with the generator bolts coming loose. Vibration typically is an engine imbalance bottom assembly or with the 1199s indicator of rod bearings going.

You said there were no metallic brass colored shaving in the oil correct? I'd still recommend you drop the oil bag and look in the oil pickup for any indicator of bearings before you fire it back up. 🔥

While not likely if you have the leakdown test tools you can test just to validate there are no valve or ring sealing issues but I would think that would not be directly related to water pump itself.

Side not whenever I tear them apart I put the aftermarket water pump gear as steel from Kamna
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I agree, I think it’s worth having the sump off to check it all out.

There was nothing in the oil so bearings is unlikely, I’ve blown a bottom end before and it was pretty instantaneous, copper everywhere and it was knocking like crazy! I feel if the bearings had gone even a little, 15 laps around Oultan park flat out would have caused them to let go!

I think sump off, check it all out and rebuild with the pump and gears and see if vibration has gone. If not I think next place to look is generator side.
 
Jamescrawshaw said:
I agree, I think it’s worth having the sump off to check it all out.

There was nothing in the oil so bearings is unlikely, I’ve blown a bottom end before and it was pretty instantaneous, copper everywhere and it was knocking like crazy! I feel if the bearings had gone even a little, 15 laps around Oultan park flat out would have caused them to let go!

I think sump off, check it all out and rebuild with the pump and gears and see if vibration has gone. If not I think next place to look is generator side.
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Yes, makes sense. Let me know how it goes! Hope you don't need them but I got a ton of extra 1199 engine parts for rebuilding...
 
Seth Vo said:
Yes, makes sense. Let me know how it goes! Hope you don't need them but I got a ton of extra 1199 engine parts for rebuilding...
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I will do, will keep the post updated as it will be nice for others if anyone experiences the same thing!
 
… few thing’s I would add, you don’t have to replace oil pick up strainer, you can take it apart and clean or just use compressed air and brake slean blow back all the crap that you WILL find. Also I would suggest that you replace seal and O ring on the cover while you are there. You are on good path to figure this issue, there are people here who are willing to help, you will just have to read through other posts to get to good ones!
 
Bo13R said:
… few thing’s I would add, you don’t have to replace oil pick up strainer, you can take it apart and clean or just use compressed air and brake slean blow back all the crap that you WILL find. Also I would suggest that you replace seal and O ring on the cover while you are there. You are on good path to figure this issue, there are people here who are willing to help, you will just have to read through other posts to get to good ones!
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Thanks very much for that advice. I’ll be sure to clean it out once I’ve got the sump off. Cheers
 
So, rebuilt the bike with bits from Ducati this weekend. New water pump, water pump gears, gear shaft, needle bearing few other bits.

Unfortunately the vibration is still there which sucks.

I guess next thing to do is check the rod bearings for wear but let of me thinks if they had enough wear to cause vibration they would have let go while flying around Oultan Park?
 
My experience has been bearings go in phases. Normally minor changes S first amd progressively worse till it can eventually lock the rod and destroy the bottom end. You would normally hear a grinding sound but need to know what to listen for sure.

I wouldn't ride it around till you've found the issue unfortunately as hopefully your still able to salvage the motor before it goes 💥

Can you tell where or any more about the vibration? Any changes in sound? Any more on where if possible? Certainly double check plugs to make sure it's not just misfires...
 
Seth Vo said:
My experience has been bearings go in phases. Normally minor changes S first amd progressively worse till it can eventually lock the rod and destroy the bottom end. You would normally hear a grinding sound but need to know what to listen for sure.

I wouldn't ride it around till you've found the issue unfortunately as hopefully your still able to salvage the motor before it goes 💥

Can you tell where or any more about the vibration? Any changes in sound? Any more on where if possible? Certainly double check plugs to make sure it's not just misfires...
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Thanks Seth.

So I got the oil filter out tonight which I didn’t remove when draining the oil as presumed if there were any bits of metal it would have been just sat in the pan…..I was wrong! At least the filter did its job!

There is a lot of Copper coloured flakes from the oil that came out of the filter so this has got to be a bottom end issue, will get the sump off and pray there isn’t any crank or con rod damage. It’s very very fine not like I’ve seen before on a bottom end failure so hopefully been caught early, the vibration is in the higher rpm range which is guess is possible even with the tiniest of extra room in the bottom end.
 

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Yep that all makes total sense now. While I know this is not what you hoped for it's still good work figuring it out before any major damage so nice work!

Feel free to DM me if you have any questions as I've got plenty of spare engine parts (and engines, 😆).

Looks like you've got your winter project! Better get it done before track season in the spring...
 
Seth Vo said:
Yep that all makes total sense now. While I know this is not what you hoped for it's still good work figuring it out before any major damage so nice work!

Feel free to DM me if you have any questions as I've got plenty of spare engine parts (and engines, 😆).

Looks like you've got your winter project! Better get it done before track season in the spring...
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For sure, at least it’s rebuildable and not got holes in it!!

Also just realised you can’t change the shells without splitting the engine haha. Bummer, was hoping for another track day this year!

Will drop you a DM if I need anything. Thank you for your help
 
Jamescrawshaw said:
For sure, at least it’s rebuildable and not got holes in it!!

Also just realised you can’t change the shells without splitting the engine haha. Bummer, was hoping for another track day this year!

Will drop you a DM if I need anything. Thank you for your help
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Yes, it's an intensive process unfortunatly requires a number of special tools. Shops estimate anywhere from 40 to 60 hours labor alone.

Most people swap in another motor at that point unless you can do it yourself to save on labor costs. Shop rebuild is 3500 - 4500 where used motors sell about 2500 - 4500 Depending on mileage and condition.

If you do all the work yourself it's still about 1500 in rebuild parts. These bike parts are not cheap!
 

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