1299 vs R1; latest review

Yeah, that's something like 72/73ftlbs.

Jayhawkk said:

The 1299 makes 20 pounds more at 4k? The BMW never makes less than about 55 so I think you're wrong if you're saying the 1299 makes 70-75 pounds at 4krpm. I'd be interested in seeing a couple graphs saying otherwise.

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At 4,000 rpm my BMW made 37 ft/lbs the graph of the 15 1199R shows it is making around 68 ft/lbs. at 7,000 rpm the BMW is making 60 ft/lbs, the Ducati is making 88.. At 9,000 rpm the BMW is at 68 ft/lbs, the Ducati is at 92. At 10,000 rpm, the BMW is at its peak of 72-74 ft/lbs and the Ducati is at its peak at around 94 ft/lbs.

Go find any random BMW S1000rr graph from the BMW forums, including mine and sit down an compare.. You will see I'm 100% correct. You can quibble about 1 or 2 ft/lbs here or there, but I am giving you the facts straight from my graph vs the graph of the 2015 1199R that is posted a few topics below this one.

I have my 1299 scheduled to be dyno tested next week on the exact same dyno my S1000RR was run on, I will be able to overlay both bikes graphs on the same sheet. Bear in mind, my S1000RR had a full race Akrapovic, BMC race filter and a full custom dyno tune and made 184.6 RWHP on a perfect, cool day..... My 1299S is bone stock and the engine is still tight.

I actually compared dyno graph before commenting to begin with. There's no way in hell a 1299 is making 94 lbs of torque stock. If that were the case nobody would be happy about only a 15% increase on the 1199 which was nonexistent.. Do you see where I'm trying to go with this? When people got on the 1199 from the 1198 the first complaint was the lack of torque. You don't go from none to a 15 percent increase and suddenly pull numbers higher than a tuned 1198 with a full exhaust.


Ain't happening and that's not quibbling, that's fact.

Jayhawkk said:

There's no way in hell a 1299 is making 94 lbs of torque stock.

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See this vid at 6:12 in

VIDEO: 2015 Yamaha R1 back on top? Ultimate Superbike shootout | MCN

The 1299 does have 15% more than an 1199 and it's pretty well documented - believe my son!

I do believe the 1299 has 15 more percent than the 1199 I never said otherwise.

Jayhawkk said:

I actually compared dyno graph before commenting to begin with. There's no way in hell a 1299 is making 94 lbs of torque stock. If that were the case nobody would be happy about only a 15% increase on the 1199 which was nonexistent.. Do you see where I'm trying to go with this? When people got on the 1199 from the 1198 the first complaint was the lack of torque. You don't go from none to a 15 percent increase and suddenly pull numbers higher than a tuned 1198 with a full exhaust.


Ain't happening and that's not quibbling, that's fact.

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go and look at the two 1299 dyno figures that have been posted. My figures are accurate. I will have my bikes figures by next week and as I said it will be same dyno, same dyno operator that my S1000RR was done on.

So far, I haven't seen one single piece of empirical data from you supporting your erroneous position, whereas I have told you to look at the figures. As I said, you can look at the posted graph from this forum on the 2015 1199R, then pick any random BMW S1000RR dyno from the Internet and you will see.

If, as you stated, you looked at the graphs before posting, then you didn't read them correctly, because it's all there in black and white.

Does the 1299 not have more torque starting earlier/lower down in the rev range than the 15R and more peak?

buttnekid said:

Does the 1299 not have more torque starting earlier/lower down in the rev range than the 15R and more peak?

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Same advertised peak BHP. 1299 does have more advertised torque, both peak and starting earlier.

More general comments on the 1299 from earlier in the year by 44 teeth

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TRO7Wv7s5cw

That's Baron von grumble. He's a bit biased towards being pro ducati isn't he?

Marmoot said:

That's Baron von grumble. He's a bit biased towards being pro ducati isn't he?

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He loves japanese bikes doesn't he, has loads of them. I remember him doing a video where he hated the 1199.

He's just being grumbly. A bit of a shitstirer.
Although, having said that, the 44T 1299 review is one of the best bike review video I've ever watched. It has all the relevant information and correct comparisons.

Here is a direct comparison, same dyno from my 1199R to the 1299S. It's no lie, the 1299 motor is completely nuts.

At 7500 RPM, the 1299 definitely has 25 ft-lb more torque, and 35 more hp.

Also attached is an overlay from the Panigale R vs. 1299S. R had stock cans still.

Thanks for the comparison graphs. Definitely shows a nice improvement

I'll still maintain what I've been taught: Dyno's are for getting the most out of an engine. Checking A/FR's and EGT's. Trying to get flat curves with no huge holes or spikes. The numbers they spit out are immaterial past that. Diagnostic work and drive ability.

Many of the strongest motors we've seen in used race Superbikes, made worse #'s on a dyno than the box stock GSXR1000 that was on the dyno just minutes earlier. There's way more to it than peak numbers.

If a bikes faster it's faster, but I don't trust dynos unless they're an electric load in Kw.

Buliwyf said:

I'll still maintain what I've been taught: Dyno's are for getting the most out of an engine. Checking A/FR's and EGT's. Trying to get flat curves with no huge holes or spikes. The numbers they spit out are immaterial past that. Diagnostic work and drive ability.

Many of the strongest motors we've seen in used race Superbikes, made worse #'s on a dyno than the box stock GSXR1000 that was on the dyno just minutes earlier. There's way more to it than peak numbers.

If a bikes faster it's faster, but I don't trust dynos unless they're an electric load in Kw.

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Electric power curves are the holy grail.

Macattack said:

what ? you dropped a tooth in the front and the bike bucks and surges at low speeds in low gears say it isn't so.
Mine has stock gearing And i never have this issue . Is this your first twin? hydraulic clutch? I think the stock gearing is perfect for the street . no bucking here. if you drive the R1 in the wrong gear at the wrong rpm it will buck too.
this effect will be exaggerated by altering the gearing. altering the gearing is good for some people but it definitely makes the usable power band smaller when you lower the front or raise the rear

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My bike evidently has some fueling issues below 4000 rpm It stutters somewhat from 3K to 4K while accelerating.. As far as changing the front sprocket I did that because the original gearing seemed to be too tall for my tastes. It required some higher throttle and some clutch slipping to get away from a light with minimum bucking etc.. Maybe it is just my bike.. Or maybe it is just me since all the experience I have up till now was with inline 4's ?
**The local dealer's top mechanic tried adjusting the throttle bodies from -0/-0 sync to a = +1/0 level and it seemed to help the low end stutter somewhat..But it did not sotp the off idle to 3K stutter and hesitation at low throttle imputs (like taking of at low rpm from a stop light etc. in the typical street ride)



On another topic I seriously doubt that I will be spending another $4k to $5k for an exhaust (for what I have seen is a minimal horsepower difference) at least comparatively for the money spent.. At least on the street.
* I will be taking it to the track this weekend to see how it handles, but this bike is going to be used on the street primarily and another $5k for just an exhaust is an absolutely insane expenditure in my humble opinion.. On the typical new Jap bike (like the new R1 for instance) that amount of money would allow me to completely change out the suspension (to Full O'hlins front and back) , add a Bazzaz or Power Commander (and have ECU flashed) and also add a full exhaust!
Where does Ducati come off charging $5000.00 for an exhaust? Oh and it is is $3800 just for SLIP ONS!!! That is outrageous.

One good thing about the 1299... It already has plenty of power and is pretty much ready to go and compete against the competition's bikes the way it comes out of the crate..

Yes ..I know it costs a lot for Akropovic to design and build the fine exhaust products that they produce but $5 grand? Come on now.. ?

The biggest problem I see with the Ducati product is that the factory has you by the short hairs when it comes to modifications. Either you pay a ridiculous price for their special exhaust (with the up load program of course) or you find that there is very little other products that are offered or that will work well since they have proprietary electronic programming built into their bike. Even last years Termignoni system for the 1199 is not a good exhaust choice from what I have read since the 1299's programming is different.

Any one else have access to another exhaust system with the accompanying up map? I haven't seen one yet..

The money is better spent on the RapidBike, not an exhaust (and granted this exhaust is considerably more complex than a Jap inline 4 header)

tcelano said:

Here is a direct comparison, same dyno from my 1199R to the 1299S. It's no lie, the 1299 motor is completely nuts.

At 7500 RPM, the 1299 definitely has 25 ft-lb more torque, and 35 more hp.

Also attached is an overlay from the Panigale R vs. 1299S. R had stock cans still.

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Man, THAT is impressive; the Akra torque curve is just nuts... Nice job and thanks for sharing the charts with us.

superfly999 said:

I have a 15R1 and the brakes don't fade...street or track. What a crock. I haven't ridden a 1299 so I cant tell you if its better or not...but compared to a 996,999,1098...this R1 eats those for breakfast and is a better machine everywhere.

And I had to stop reading and wipe my eyes when I read "The R1 protests into life, wheezing and spluttering before finally turning over" - This leads me to believe that the author or authors are in fact lying and have never ridden an R1. It's even a bigger crock of .... than about the brakes. I think my R1 spins effortlessly in about a second to start. Its not even laughable how wrong his words are.

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The R1 has absolutely nothing under 7k RPM, it really protests into life, i don't know how you can say the opposite, i have tried the R1, it is a fantastic bike, but it has the most impressive lack of torque in the low / mid rpm i have ever seen on a 1000cc sportbike. That's a fact.