2018 Ducati V4 Its real, well at least the motor

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As far as cost of the new V4 engine compared to the twin? I don't think it will be much cheaper to produce, especially when the future "R" model engine arrives. Keep in mind your adding two more forged pistons and Ti Rods into the mix. However, it will be much more reliable and MUCH easier to maintain.

V4s are always more to produce than twins, they're generally the most expensive common engine layout which is why you don't see more OEMs use them.

Wouldn't count on a difference in reliability or maintenance if I were you, but I could be wrong on that.
 
I can't speak to the maintenance aspect. But spinning two pistons the size of milk jugs at 12,000 RPM puts a ridiculous amount of force on the entire engine. I have no idea how Ducati pulled that off on anything that has a warranty. I'm sure Endo or someone else here is probably smart enough to be able to calculate the actual forces involved. But even allowing for a much higher rev limit, I suspect 4 smaller pistons are going to be a lot more friendly to the rest of the components.

Well said!

The piston to wall clearance can be made a little tighter with a smaller bore. The ring pack will have a much easier time with oil control and combustion forces. Same goes for piston pins and low end bearings. Since the engine is physically smaller the head designers now have more room for a straighter port design too.

Another benefit is the doubling of the power impulses on a V4 making the whole engine smoother. Helps keep the crap from vibrating loose and falling off and the parts breakage due to metal fatigue.

Finally, there is something else that does affect the price of the new bike and what most of us don't ever think about and that is the price of the warranty. A big chunk of what you pay for a vehicle is for the unit repair cost during the warranty period....Less warranty claims should allow for the price to come down some.
 
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V4s are always more to produce than twins, they're generally the most expensive common engine layout which is why you don't see more OEMs use them.

Wouldn't count on a difference in reliability or maintenance if I were you, but I could be wrong on that.

RSV4 is made at a reasonable cost aswell as the virtual v4 r1 motor (crossplane crank).

They don't make the v4 common because people want high HP
 
RSV4 is made at a reasonable cost aswell as the virtual v4 r1 motor (crossplane crank).

They don't make the v4 common because people want high HP

You don't know the cost of producing the RSV4's motor, or the margins Aprilia gets on selling the bike, you only know the price at which it's sold. Which I agree is reasonable, out of necessity (otherwise they wouldn't sell a single one).

"Virtual V4" is meaningless, the R1 has an inline four with a different crank and firing order to the norm. It has nothing to do with the basic layout of a V4, which has two heads, two sets of cams, etc etc.

V4s can make just as much horsepower as an inline four. But they are simply more expensive. That's why they aren't more common.
 
You don't know the cost of producing the RSV4's motor, or the margins Aprilia gets on selling the bike, you only know the price at which it's sold. Which I agree is reasonable, out of necessity (otherwise they wouldn't sell a single one).

"Virtual V4" is meaningless, the R1 has an inline four with a different crank and firing order to the norm. It has nothing to do with the basic layout of a V4, which has two heads, two sets of cams, etc etc.

V4s can make just as much horsepower as an inline four. But they are simply more expensive. That's why they aren't more common.

Yeah but what would you know?:D:D:D

Thanks for still popping in here on occasion.
 
RSV4 is made at a reasonable cost aswell as the virtual v4 r1 motor (crossplane crank).

They don't make the v4 common because people want high HP

RSV4 has hit the 200hp mark and on par with the rest of the manufacturers and MotoGP bikes are high HP V4's... How much HP did the D16RR have back in 2007 and what was the cost? So, I don't see any HP issue with a V4 and it looks like it's more a cost issue and that's why they're not as common.
 
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RSV4 has hit the 200hp mark and MotoGP bikes are high HP... so I don't see any HP issue with a V4 so then that would mean it's a cost issue and that's why they're not as common.

I think you are right. My guess is also the cost and difficulties of working on V4.
 
You don't know the cost of producing the RSV4's motor, or the margins Aprilia gets on selling the bike, you only know the price at which it's sold. Which I agree is reasonable, out of necessity (otherwise they wouldn't sell a single one).

"Virtual V4" is meaningless, the R1 has an inline four with a different crank and firing order to the norm. It has nothing to do with the basic layout of a V4, which has two heads, two sets of cams, etc etc.

V4s can make just as much horsepower as an inline four. But they are simply more expensive. That's why they aren't more common.

Sorry if that sounded a bit heavy handed, what I should have said was WE don't know the cost of the RSV4's motor (unless someone here works for Piaggio).

Here's what it comes down to:
Horsepower is all about pumping lots and lots of air. Big pistons are limited (due to their mass) in how fast they can go back and forth. So you use smaller pistons, and spin the engine at high speed.

All else equal (displacement, stroke, etc) inline fours and V4s have the exact same size pistons. Theoretical horsepower between the two engine layouts is basically the same.

In MotoGP, the choice of engine layout comes down to things like width, weight distribution, and moment of inertia advantages/disadvantages of the different layouts. In that world, choosing the engine configuration is not about cost or horsepower, it's about handling and packaging.

But for production bikes, which is a much different world, it's purely down to cost. At this point any of the major OEMs could make 220 horsepower production engines in either inline or V4 configurations, if they chose to do so. It's cheaper to do it as an inline, though.

Ever ask yourself why anyone makes parallel twins instead of v twins? Exact same reason and principle as inline vs. V4, just applied to an engine with two less cylinders.
 
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Sorry if that sounded a bit heavy handed, what I should have said was WE don't know the cost of the RSV4's motor (unless someone here works for Piaggio).

Here's what it comes down to:
Horsepower is all about pumping lots and lots of air. Big pistons are limited (due to their mass) in how fast they can go back and forth. So you use smaller pistons, and spin the engine at high speed.

All else equal (displacement, stroke, etc) inline fours and V4s have the exact same size pistons. Theoretical horsepower between the two engine layouts is basically the same.

In MotoGP, the choice of engine layout comes down to things like width, weight distribution, and moment of inertia advantages/disadvantages of the different layouts. In that world, choosing the engine configuration is not about cost or horsepower, it's about handling and packaging.

But for production bikes, which is a much different world, it's purely down to cost. At this point any of the major OEMs could make 220 horsepower production engines in either inline or V4 configurations, if they chose to do so. It's cheaper to do it as an inline, though.

Ever ask yourself why anyone makes parallel twins instead of v twins? Exact same reason and principle as inline vs. V4, just applied to an engine with two less cylinders.

Always appreciate your info. :D
 
V4 or L4

A friend was nice enough to share some photos from the factory of the new motor so I can confirm that it is indeed a reality that is far past the conceptual phase. Unfortunately, nothing concrete on what the bike will look like. I'd be happy to get a few motors. There was a nasty rumor that it may not be for a Panigale replacement but an alternative in the sport bike category.

When you say V4, do you mean V4 or is it an L4.

Ducati have no history in the V engine configuration. They have done L twins and an L4.
 
When you say V4, do you mean V4 or is it an L4.

Ducati have no history in the V engine configuration. They have done L twins and an L4.


Ducati 750 Imola Desmo
Engine: 748 cc (45.6 cu in) 2-valve per cylinder desmodromic air cooled 90° V-twin

I only remembered this because Ducati specifically mentioned using V-twins when I did the factory tour in Bologna a few years ago.
 
You don't know the cost of producing the RSV4's motor, or the margins Aprilia gets on selling the bike, you only know the price at which it's sold. Which I agree is reasonable, out of necessity (otherwise they wouldn't sell a single one).



"Virtual V4" is meaningless, the R1 has an inline four with a different crank and firing order to the norm. It has nothing to do with the basic layout of a V4, which has two heads, two sets of cams, etc etc.



V4s can make just as much horsepower as an inline four. But they are simply more expensive. That's why they aren't more common.



A cross plane crank V4 is said the have the same engine pulses of a V4. I think that's what he means. Inline fours fire every 180 degrees of crank rotation. Cross plane crank I4's don't.

Anyway, the goal of a V4 and CPC I4 is to get away from peaky power delivery, but at the expense of vibration/weight.

Ducati can cost effectively make a V4 if they want to, it will make 200+ hp just like Aprilia's.
 
Ducati 750 Imola Desmo
Engine: 748 cc (45.6 cu in) 2-valve per cylinder desmodromic air cooled 90° V-twin

I only remembered this because Ducati specifically mentioned using V-twins when I did the factory tour in Bologna a few years ago.

Ducati don't really help themselves and contribute to the confusion. Sometimes they use the term "L twin" and sometimes the use the term "90 degree V twin".

They are basically the same thing, though it could be said the term L twin is a bit more accurate in Ducati's case as the horizontal cylinder sits parallel to the ground.

Aprilia have made a 60 degree v twin
Harley a 45 degree v twin
Honda various angles, including 90 degree with the engine canted up to put in a V position as opposed to an L position.

Be interested to know the actual engine configuration for sure beyond what's been suggested to me else where
 
...though it could be said the term L twin is a bit more accurate in Ducati's case as the horizontal cylinder sits parallel to the ground..

i always thought the L had more to do with the cylinders being at 90 degrees as opposed to how it is placed in the frame (e.g. with one cylinder parallel to the ground). anything that isn't 90 degrees would be a V.
 
And the RVF400.. awesome little bike

I had one of those many years ago. Amazing machine.

1924117_1194762471829_1190059_n.jpg
 

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