AR Inconel Install

Stw · Apr 18, 2013

Rich22 said:
Stw and his followers.

You would certainly not show so much disrespect to me and Austinracing if you were aware just how much time and effort was spent on bringing such a fantastic looking, sounding, weight saving, innovative exhaust system to Panigale owners around the globe. Do you see this from other exhaust manufacturers? NO

Like for like tests are as said, like for like tests.
A fully open race system requires fuelling to optimise it.
If you bolt our system on and run it against a set of termi slip ons with up map then it's not like for like, is it. The AR system should also be run with an equivalent map.

You should read previous threads and learn from them before you state such ludicrous wafflings.

I can only hope you end up banned!

To all the decent members I appolagise for this outburst but enough is enough of this crap![/QUOTE

Wow... Banned??? and you say I show disrespect??? How dare you say that I and anyone else who agrees with me should be banned!!! I have been nothing but sincere and clear about my views on your product... this is a forum..by definition a place to share, amongst other things , views about the 1199 and products that are sold for it... You sir are out of line and right now your post makes you look foolish...

rm4two · Apr 18, 2013

sifubs said:
For the moment lets get the raw objective performance numbers then each can make the cost decision.

We already have numbers without tuning (regardless of how low the numbers seem since its on the same bike, dyno etc).

If it turns out the difference is 20 hp one way or the other(after custom tune) then this may be worth $2000.00(for example) to someone, however it this becomes 5hp then it might not be worth the cost difference.

At this point comparing exhaust to exhaust assuming is whet's needed both with a custom tune (assuming same cost to tune both using the same software , dyno and tuner) then the cost differential is down to the cost of the exhaust(AR Full to Termi Full or AR Full to Termi Slip on).

Maybe I shouldn't bother posting seeing Rich already chimed in above? But his dyno results (only)

show a 5hp increase like for like. The dyno results are all over this forum so he's never stated differently. AR tested the Full Termi system with a tuned RB unit and it produced 186hp, a similar AR system with a tuned RB unit produced 191hp. Again what's the problem? IMO, the value in the AR system is in other areas not just peak HP and that's where the AR System blows the competition away. (i.e. Lighter, better fueling, better quality, and Superior customer service). I'm sorry but I have to agree with Rich. Would some of you bash Termi or AK if they were posting here? Maybe this is why most manufactures don't post on forums?

VAST · Apr 18, 2013

Rich22 said:
Stw and his followers.

You would certainly not show so much disrespect to me and Austinracing if you were aware just how much time and effort was spent on bringing such a fantastic looking, sounding, weight saving, innovative exhaust system to Panigale owners around the globe. Do you see this from other exhaust manufacturers? NO

Like for like tests are as said, like for like tests.
A fully open race system requires fuelling to optimise it.
If you bolt our system on and run it against a set of termi slip ons with up map then it's not like for like, is it. The AR system should also be run with an equivalent map.

You should read previous threads and learn from them before you state such ludicrous wafflings.

I can only hope you end up banned!

To all the decent members I appolagise for this outburst but enough is enough of this crap!

Rich: while I have been critical of claims and specific results of WAf upon installing your exhaust, I've also stated that I'm a fan of your actual design in terms of aesthetics and weight savings. Having typed that, I'd like to offer my unsolicited advice: why not supply a map or two with your pipe, inclusive of price (which you may feel you need to raise)? Also, have you actually measured the heat of your INCONEL material such that you may definitively prove that it burns not as hot?

I'm rooting for you and your product!

Gavin D · Apr 18, 2013

Rich,

Respect is earned not not claimed. Ludicrous wafflings? NO. Legitimate questions and opinions regarding outrageous claims.

Slip ons with a std map vs your full system is not like for like, in theory your system should stomp home in front but it didn't.

Why would you hope we end up banned! If you and your inconel can't handle the heat get out of the kitchen.

Under promise and over deliver Rich and never deride your opponents product. let your product speak for itself.

Note to all members, you are only decent if you agree with Rich and the AR fanboys!

I hope for WAfatboys sake you help him sort your .... out.

Trauma · Apr 18, 2013

I must say I gave that advice to Rich way back. You never bad mouth your competition. Especially here where they cannot defend themselves. One's product should speak for itself. Let the owners voice their likes/dislikes. People wanted AR compared to Termis, but he should not have complied. Easier to defend your own product, then disparaging remorks you made of another.

Rich22 · Apr 18, 2013

We offer unlimited help and free maps as we update. We answer emails and share our knowledge with all.

We are respected around the world.

Every now and then a troll pops up to try and diss us!

Correct, other manufacturers don't come to forums and leave themselves open to such abuse! We do because we are genuine and honest and simply love bikes.

It's passion that brings you the customer a great product, doubters should realise that fact.

If you don't agree then don't buy AR products, no probs!

ttkarp · Apr 18, 2013

Rich22 said:
Stw and his followers.

You would certainly not show so much disrespect to me and Austinracing if you were aware just how much time and effort was spent on bringing such a fantastic looking, sounding, weight saving, innovative exhaust system to Panigale owners around the globe. Do you see this from other exhaust manufacturers? NO

Like for like tests are as said, like for like tests.
A fully open race system requires fuelling to optimise it.
If you bolt our system on and run it against a set of termi slip ons with up map then it's not like for like, is it. The AR system should also be run with an equivalent map.

You should read previous threads and learn from them before you state such ludicrous wafflings.

I can only hope you end up banned!

To all the decent members I appolagise for this outburst but enough is enough of this crap!

See, the trouble with the internet is that everything one types is recoverable. For example:

February 25, 2013...question from Lotto:
"Looks good, thanks. I'd like to run the exhaust without a fueling module until June, when I can get it dynotuned. Should I put AIS (smog) block off plates on in the meantime- does it make any difference without a fueling module on your exhaust?"

February 26, 2013...answer from Rich22
"A Rapidbike fuelling module is recommended to get the full potential from the system. It is not essential and performance is still way up from stock without it. No up maps are required.
In tests we found the heat shield was not required in particular with the Inconel systems. A heat shield is a simple add on, if the feedback from customers in extremely hot climates calls for a shield then we will offer 1.
Block off plates are not required."

In your own words, it's not necessary to have a fueling module. You also said in this very thread that WA should buy himself a Termi Heat shield as that will fit your system.

Perhaps you should ban yourself for such ludicrous wafflings? Shall I cut and paste all of the negative comments you've made about your competitors?

Questioning data is not being disrespectful. It's called being a smart consumer. I have no idea why you've been offended to the point that you've made it personal and hoped to have contributing members banned because they don't just accept your word as fact? Especially in light of the overwhelming evidence that your data is at the very least, questionable.

sifubs · Apr 18, 2013

Stw said:
Raw data?? We already have raw data... same bike same dyno same day same tuner equaled a loss of 3hp compared to Termi slips.... How much more raw do you want???

Raw data after tuning both, it is possible that AR gets bigger numbers after a tune when compared to Termi after a tune.

It is possible that AR responds to a tune better than Termi, wouldn't like to know?

Stw · Apr 18, 2013

Rich22 said:
We offer unlimited help and free maps as we update. We answer emails and share our knowledge with all.

We are respected around the world.

Every now and then a troll pops up to try and diss us!

Correct, other manufacturers don't come to forums and leave themselves open to such abuse! We do because we are genuine and honest and simply love bikes.

It's passion that brings you the customer a great product, doubters should realise that fact.

If you don't agree then don't buy AR products, no probs!

Right back Atcha... if you don't like what people say then don't post.. I find this sensitivity entertaining and yet somewhat alarming... My comments are driven by 2 main sources..

1. Your constant dissing of Termis in the past
2. Waf actual real world results... back to back compared to Termi Slips

If your product doesn't stack up Hp wise that's ok.(Cough).. Its still looks great and I am sure the standard of manufacture is awesome... But you were the ones who posted Dyno after Dyno charts..

But ..... IMHO.. Your childish responses beggar belief...

Gavin D · Apr 18, 2013

After seeing you represent AR on this forum there is no way I would ever deal with you or your company.

To be labelled a troll and claim I am dissing you is again ludicrous!

I like others wanted your claims to be true. I have asked you basic reasonable questions which you have brushed away and ignored.

The tone of this thread was changed by you and your direct childish insults to multiple members without basis.

In retrospect when you read between the lines it's clear.

Your system is the same diameter as the std system and probably a straight copy up to the muffler. Thats why you couldn't tell me the areas that made your system more powerful. No you don't need to reveal secrets to prove your claims.

You gain all your power from re mapping and all your money by using a less used material so you can charge a huge sum of money and justify it.

Members if you don't want the Termi buy Akrapovic full titanium system. A thing of beauty and quality. Tried Trusted and True. A company of worlds best practice.

Something Rich and AR by association have very little idea of.

Trauma · Apr 18, 2013

Rich22 · Apr 18, 2013

In every single test we have performed our system out performed like for like

1: No mapping at all.
2: Fully mapped with Rapidbike vs fully mapped with rapid bike termi options

Heat shield: we have always stated we will produce 1 if owners find they require it. Up until now no owners have requested it.

Today we built a prototype shield that we will produce in carbon as soon as humanly possible. If you require 1 before ours is available we said the termi shield fits.

We find in the uk we do not require a shield.

Gavin d: did not call you a troll but read it as you will. Your choice not to buy from us.

Stw · Apr 18, 2013

Gavin D said:
After seeing you represent AR on this forum there is no way I would ever deal with you or your company.

To be labelled a troll and claim I am dissing you is again ludicrous!

I like others wanted your claims to be true. I have asked you basic reasonable questions which you have brushed away and ignored.

The tone of this thread was changed by you and your direct childish insults to multiple members without basis.

In retrospect when you read between the lines it's clear.

Your system is the same diameter as the std system and probably a straight copy up to the muffler. Thats why you couldn't tell me the areas that made your system more powerful. No you don't need to reveal secrets to prove your claims.

You gain all your power from re mapping and all your money by using a less used material so you can charge a huge sum of money and justify it.

Members if you don't want the Termi buy Akrapovic full titanium system. A thing of beauty and quality. Tried Trusted and True. A company of worlds best practice.

Something Rich and AR by association have very little idea of.

Well said Sir!! I am so disappointed in this... Not the results so much... although that too...but AR;s attitude has been very poor..

sifubs · Apr 18, 2013

LOL... This is like being on Mauri Povich

sifubs · Apr 18, 2013

Gavin D said:
After seeing you represent AR on this forum there is no way I would ever deal with you or your company.

To be labelled a troll and claim I am dissing you is again ludicrous!

I like others wanted your claims to be true. I have asked you basic reasonable questions which you have brushed away and ignored.

The tone of this thread was changed by you and your direct childish insults to multiple members without basis.

In retrospect when you read between the lines it's clear.

Your system is the same diameter as the std system and probably a straight copy up to the muffler. Thats why you couldn't tell me the areas that made your system more powerful. No you don't need to reveal secrets to prove your claims.

You gain all your power from re mapping and all your money by using a less used material so you can charge a huge sum of money and justify it.

Members if you don't want the Termi buy Akrapovic full titanium system. A thing of beauty and quality. Tried Trusted and True. A company of worlds best practice.

Something Rich and AR by association have very little idea of.

This is disturbing, you mentioned above "You gain all your power from re mapping and all your money by using a less used material so you can charge a huge sum of money and justify it.".

If this is true you should be able to prove it by tuning both and getting the same or close results for both.

I am not biased for or against the AR system, there are definite advantages of the AR system.

Your claim is surprising especially since there is really no evidence that has been presented .

Gavin D · Apr 18, 2013

The evidence comes from Rich as he states the system is the same diameter.

There could theoretically be an improvement from the muffler end of the system but as we have seen already with WAF the system made 3hp less than a std system with slip ons.

Contrary to Rich and AR claims as shown above by a valued member ttkarp. Post #228 has quotes from this forum

VAST · Apr 18, 2013

Rich: could you answer some of the questions I've asked before in this thread; specifically:

1. what is the theory behind your improved exhaust (i am not asking for specifics since you claim that your competitors will steal your implementation [i truly don't believe that, but i still respect corp proprietary secrecy])?

2. have you performed heat tests of your INCONEL material such that it definitively shows lower run temp?

3. would you concede that in WAf's tests, your AR system yielded 3hp less than Termi slip-on, given same dyno and lack of air blowing plus other similar variables?

ttkarp · Apr 18, 2013

rm4two said:
Would some of you bash Termi or AK if they were posting here? Maybe this is why most manufactures don't post on forums?

I think that's a large part of the issue. Whether members would bash products is irrelevant. What is relevant is that AR HAS bashed his competitors, which is why some of us have taken exception to his tactics. Something to think about: Has anyone seen an example anywhere in the world (other than on AR's dyno) where the Termi slips make more power than the Termi full system? Yet we've all just accepted, based on the findings of a direct competitor, that it is fact. I don't find that to be acceptable. I also wouldn't appreciate it if Termi had a rep on this site bashing AR. Bottom line is, you can't come on a site in an attempt to frame the argument against your competitor's product, and not expect push back...especially when the first data set available that you didn't create yourself, shows otherwise.

I think I can speak for most when I say this is (or was at least) nothing personal against Rich. He seems like a solid guy overall. The issue is with the tactics he's chosen to use to position his product. Hopefully WA gets the great numbers and everyone winds up happy. Then Rich can get on with business and stop calling people trolls and followers

sifubs · Apr 18, 2013

Gavin D said:
The evidence comes from Rich as he states the system is the same diameter.

There could theoretically be an improvement from the muffler end of the system but as we have seen already with WAF the system made 3hp less than a std system with slip ons.

Contrary to Rich and AR claims as shown above by a valued member ttkarp. Post #228 has quotes from this forum

Are you kidding? Engineering effective exhausts are not simple, diameter, shape length all play a part. Provide some evidence you are using to accuse you have not proven that AR with a tune is worse than Termi with an equivalent tune.

By tune i mean a custom tune optimized by same tuner with same software.

Once you have an apples to apples test then you have evidence.

VAST · Apr 18, 2013

sifubs said:
Are you kidding? Engineering effective exhausts are not simple, diameter, shape length all play a part. Provide some evidence you are using to accuse you have not proven that AR with a tune is worse than Termi with an equivalent tune.

By tune i mean a custom tune optimized by same tuner with same software.

Once you have an apples to apples test then you have evidence.

Let's stop confusing the issues here, PLEASE! FORGET THE TUNE! TAKE THAT VARIABLE OUT!

Rich stated as per above that gains are "way" better with his system, no tune necessary. Can we ALL agree to this?

AR Inconel Install

Help Support Ducati Forum:

Stw

rm4two

VAST

Gavin D

Trauma

Rich22

ttkarp

sifubs

Stw

Gavin D

Trauma

Attachments

Rich22

Stw

sifubs

sifubs

Gavin D

VAST

ttkarp

sifubs

VAST

Similar threads

Register CTA

Recent Discussions