AR Inconel Install

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We would not release an exhaust that under performed full stop.
It's not what we are all about.
 
Rich22 said:
We would not release an exhaust that under performed full stop.
It's not what we are all about.
Click to expand...

Not sure what full stop means, but that is not answering my question. First, my statement was based on the consensus that the open/missing item (anyone correct me), is a test of the AR against the Termi with the latest map. Either way:

My statement, is if you tested against that system (Termi/new map), any other exisiting one, or a new one that comes out, and you could not provide documented results that showed your product to be superior, then you (or any vendor, not picking on you), would not publish those results.
 
I did answer it. We would not release a system that was out performed by another manufacturer. So, if the new map makes the termi system out perform AR then we would look at tweaking our system to put it back on top. Outperform is also a fairly undefined statement, mid range, low down or peak power! In reality most riders never use peak power, mid and hi mid is where it counts. Ask a racer.

We come from the world of F1, second best is not an option, always striving to be better.
 
Rich22 said:
I did answer it. We would not release a system that was out performed by another manufacturer. So, if the new map makes the termi system out perform AR then we would look at tweaking our system to put it back on top. Outperform is also a fairly undefined statement, mid range, low down or peak power! In reality most riders never use peak power, mid and hi mid is where it counts. Ask a racer.

We come from the world of F1, second best is not an option, always striving to be better.
Click to expand...

No offense Rich, but I think the person asking the question determines if it was answered or not. A yes or no would have answered it. But I guess you did answer it in a way. If you found something did outperform your pipe, you would not admit it (i.e. post those results), you would just keep trying to improve your pipe until it was better, then tell the world. :) Which is fine, not saying that's bad.
 
''Oh what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive''
 
Well so far nothing has outperformed us which is clear to see on the graphs.

If we get significantly out gunned then we would strive to get back in front.

If we do get out gunned then I'm pretty sure a few on this forum will revel in that and post as many graphs as possible. :rolleyes:

We do not deceive, stw!!!

Man have you got a chip or what!!!
 
The problem at this point really becomes, the group of five not accepting ANY answer and being hell bent on making there point... To which I repeat... why do you give a ....? None of you are even interested in buying the AR exhaust.

If you are doing it for others, you have more than made your point durring the 100's of posts repeating yourselves. For the love of the forum gods, PLEASE STOP, we get it. Go out and ride or get a hobby. This is worse than an election debate.
 
Lard (pun intended :) ) - YOU are part of the problem, a post against posters, not the topic.

Rich - thank you for kinda answering my post. Again, I know you never falsify your results, but I am sure we have only seen the positive ones.

This whole string started beucause someone else wanted to see the AR exhaust compared to the new up-maped Termi. My simple resonse, was that "what is the point" - meaning, if you ever release it, it will show the AR pipe as superior, or you would not release it. So what's the point of asking. Simple, non-attacking, let's get past asking for it, that's all.
 
Trauma said:
Lard (pun intended :) ) - YOU are part of the problem, a post against posters, not the topic.

Rich - thank you for kinda answering my post. Again, I know you never falsify your results, but I am sure we have only seen the positive ones.

This whole string started beucause someone else wanted to see the AR exhaust compared to the new up-maped Termi. My simple resonse, was that "what is the point" - meaning, if you ever release it, it will show the AR pipe as superior, or you would not release it. So what's the point of asking. Simple, non-attacking, let's get past asking for it, that's all.
Click to expand...

So if I interpreted that response correctly, the answer we got, and have to live with, is if they get an 1199 with Full system with New Upmap on their dyno, and it does not perform as well as the AR tuned setup, we will see these results posted. If the opposite happens and the AR tuned system is outperformed, we will not see these results. Austin Racing's setup will be revised to offer more performance advantage than the Termi Full with new Upmap, and only then will the results be released to us.

I can understand where he is coming from as a business owner with a product to sell, but as a forum member and possible customer, I would not be happy with that choice. We all want straight results as they are tested and documented, but if these results show a vendors (AR's) product to be inferior, there is no way we should expect them to post a comparison highlighting this.

Call it what you will but it is what it is.
 
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Notec said:
So if I interpreted that response correctly, the answer we got, and have to live with, is if they get an 1199 with Full system with New Upmap on their dyno, and it does not perform as well as the AR tuned setup, we will see these results posted. If the opposite happens and the AR tuned system is outperformed, we will not see these results. Austin Racing's setup will be revised to offer more performance advantage than the Termi Full with new Upmap, and only then will the results be released to us.

I can understand where he is coming from as a business owner with a product to sell, but as a forum member and possible customer, I would not be happy with that choice. We all want straight results as they are tested and documented, but if these results show a vendors product to be inferior, there is no way we should expect them to post a comparison highlighting this.

Call it what you will but it is what it is.
Click to expand...

You hit the nail on the head. We (the forum) were not included in the several "before" dyno runs that were eluded to, in order to learn the best way to tune the Pani to the AR pipe. So not a true interaction with the forum as was eluded to. Not dishonest by any means, just not full disclosure perhaps. ;)
 
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I am part of the problem? LOL! I have to wade through 100's of post, many of them yours, repeating yourself over and over again to actually get information. Lets be realistic about THE PROBLEM. I am simply asking you and others not interested in this exhaust what-so-ever, to take a chill pill.

Seems reasonable.
 
Lard - I learned long ago you cannot stop someone from posting no matter how you word it. Hopefully you will learn, and stop posting against the posters, and stick to the topic of the thread. And BTW, you don't have to own or want to own a product to post on a thread even remotely related to it, you don't even have to own a Panigale.

This said, at least 2% of your posts have been a waste of time. Want to make it 3? post again :D
 
Trauma said:
You hit the nail on the head. We (the forum) were not included in the several "before" dyno runs that were eluded to, in order to learn the best way to tune the Pani to the AR pipe. So not a true interaction with the forum as was eluded to. Not dishonest by any means, just not full disclosure perhaps. ;)
Click to expand...

I'm not sure what you are saying in regards to the part I in bold.

Are you saying that we are not privy to the tuning process, as far as fuel, timing, map adjustments, etc? If so, this is like IP, wouldn't expect to be.

Or are you referring to the steps that were mentioned on dyno setup like running the bike in for 2 hrs, multiple pulls, the addition of the HP fan? If so then you are correct and I agree. I can't recall that being mentioned before and if it was, I missed it.
 
Notec said:
I'm not sure what you are saying in regards to the part I in bold.

Are you saying that we are not privy to the tuning process, as far as fuel, timing, map adjustments, etc? If so, this is like IP, wouldn't expect to be.

Or are you referring to the steps that were mentioned on dyno setup like running the bike in for 2 hrs, multiple pulls, the addition of the HP fan? If so then you are correct and I agree. I can't recall that being mentioned before and if it was, I missed it.
Click to expand...

The setup, yes.
 
Notec said:
Those were from earlier releases of the Upmap. But the Upmaps were further tuned (MAX tuned in the time allotted) with the RB modules by AR on their dyno to show a fair comparison of the different exhaust systems and mapping at the time.

I pointed this out to Gavin D several times in post #859 and again in #865. The link from post #859 clearly shows the difference between the old factory Upmap vs RB tuned. Rich said over and over again he prefers to tune any 1199, no matter the exhaust, with the factory OEM mapping. Everyone was aware that the old Upmap robbed power substantially thru power band. This was later confirmed by more individuals as well as Bunburry Dyno.

There was no graph posted of the new Termi Upmap on an 1199 equipped with the full system. If there was, I certainly would have re-posted it. Rich has commented on a significant improvement in the low-end performance (5K rpm and below) after testing bikes with the revised OEM map.

I have no doubt that once Austin racing receives a bike fitted with Full Termi system and revised Upmap, they will test, tune, and post results just as they have done in the past.
Click to expand...

That's a 'No' then.

Shame Rich couldn't have answered as this is where misinformation slips in (no pun intended). The graphs you reference I already have and are for a Termi with Slips.

I know that they said the old upmap was trash, and I've already posted anecdotal evidence myself from BunburyDyno (my local dyno) that supports that. I actually corrected Gavin on this point myself in post #937

What I'm getting at is that as far as i can tell the claims of superiority were not made against a machine with the OEM map, but an AR tuned version of the up-map bike. Was the AR equipped bike also based on the upmap?
 
Trauma said:
Lard (pun intended :) ) - YOU are part of the problem, a post against posters, not the topic.

Rich - thank you for kinda answering my post. Again, I know you never falsify your results, but I am sure we have only seen the positive ones.

This whole string started beucause someone else wanted to see the AR exhaust compared to the new up-maped Termi. My simple resonse, was that "what is the point" - meaning, if you ever release it, it will show the AR pipe as superior, or you would not release it. So what's the point of asking. Simple, non-attacking, let's get past asking for it, that's all.
Click to expand...

Actually I'd also like to have seen a bike with NO upmap run with the full Termi, which would have been the way to get the best result at the time. Anyway its all moot now.

Trauma I think you hit the nail on the head, no graph will be posted that shows AR behind. This is why independent dyno evidence is so important and why I'm trying to get just that.
 

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