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Jolly Roger V4 · Dec 15, 2022

THIS!!!!!

Steven31371 · Dec 15, 2022

Electric bikes will go several seconds faster.

If for no other reason than what they can do to electronically manage traction.

Jrsq270 · Dec 15, 2022

You can have all the power and all the aero. The tire has to be able to handle it.

craig bush · Dec 15, 2022

youpaiyou said:
Maybe the aerodynamic issue is totally unrelated, but I’ve found myself more interested in WSBK and MotoAmerica than ever before. MotoGP is still my favorite, but the other race series have been phenomenal. Tons of passes and tons of drama.

Agree 100%. WSBK was quite good this year, and Motoamerica was pretgood too.

craig bush · Dec 15, 2022

bp_SFV4 said:
Probably one of the few times I’d disagree w Craig. I look at the current MotoGP and see all the innovation and engineering. Everything that’s there is there to solve a problem and make the bike faster. With how the lap times keep dropping its easy to see they are accomplishing their goal.

I’m not sure aero development is dropping lap times all that significantly my friend. Lap times have been dropping, but only marginally for the last few years. Check out these Sachsenring pole times:

2005: 1:24.618

2010: 1:21.817 (2.801 secs faster than 2005)

2015: 1:20.336 (1.481 secs faster than 2010))

2019: 1:20.195 (0.141 secs faster than 2015)

2021: 1:20.236 (0.041 secs slower than 2019)

2022: 1:19.931 (0.305 secs faster than 2021)

JohnSmith · Dec 15, 2022

sachsenring is the closest thing to a go kart track on the calendar, not the best ref point for gauging lap times with aero

Bruce Wayne · Dec 15, 2022

KarlKani said:
sachsenring is the closest thing to a go kart track on the calendar, not the best ref point for gauging lap times with aero

One of the apparent advantages of Aero is to limit front wheel lift under hard acceleration so the power doesn't need to be cut as much, so i would think sachsenring would be a good reference

youpaiyou · Dec 15, 2022

We haven’t even opened up the can of worms that is ride height devices…..

BP PanigaleV4S · Dec 15, 2022

Steven31371 said:
She looks mean this way, still have to put the rear subframe setup on.

Which Zerogravity windscreen is that? It looks even bigger than the WRS I have now and the Ducati Performance one I was using.

SuperDomestique · Dec 15, 2022

Jolly Roger V4 said:
THIS!!!!!

Best thing about wings is that it’s a good place to rest your latte

BP PanigaleV4S · Dec 15, 2022

KarlKani said:
sachsenring is the closest thing to a go kart track on the calendar, not the best ref point for gauging lap times with aero

Its super hard to gauge the effectiveness of aero just off of one track too. I don't think anyone can make a reasonable argument against a statement that the bikes are getting faster as a result of the evolution of technology and riding style.

Aero is a part of that.

MM93 gave an interview where he said the bikes are getting less manual, in that there use to be more things the rider had to do to manage the bike. This made for more errors and more opportunity for other racers.

Steven31371 · Dec 15, 2022

bp_SFV4 said:
Which Zerogravity windscreen is that? It looks even bigger than the WRS I have now and the Ducati Performance one I was using.

I tried them all, have them all on my shelf, the best one for big guys is that one, it’s the Zero Gravity touring one.

https://www.bellissimoto.com/parts/...ields-Ducati-Panigale-V4-R-2019-Base-S-2020-1

Steven31371 · Dec 15, 2022

bp_SFV4 said:
Its super hard to gauge the effectiveness of aero just off of one track too. I don't think anyone can make a reasonable argument against a statement that the bikes are getting faster as a result of the evolution of technology and riding style.

Aero is a part of that.

MM93 gave an interview where he said the bikes are getting less manual, in that there use to be more things the rider had to do to manage the bike. This made for more errors and more opportunity for other racers.

Before MotoGP nerfed the aero arms race Ducati had multiple wing setups for different tracks, just like F1….some tracks it’s better to have less downforce and less drag, other tracks it’s better to have more downforce and sacrifice having more drag.

I opted for their greatest downforce version, knowing I was gunna create drag, because I’m not fast enough yet to be doing close to 200 mph straights lol, but want the increased stability and grip.

Fairly easy to change the attack angle of the bottom wings later for less drag if I want to.

BP PanigaleV4S · Dec 15, 2022

Steven31371 said:
I tried them all, have them all on my shelf, the best one for big guys is that one, it’s the Zero Gravity touring one.

https://www.bellissimoto.com/parts/...ields-Ducati-Panigale-V4-R-2019-Base-S-2020-1

I just ordered one. It will be a part of my spring test.

craig bush · Dec 15, 2022

bp_SFV4 said:
Its super hard to gauge the effectiveness of aero just off of one track too. I don't think anyone can make a reasonable argument against a statement that the bikes are getting faster as a result of the evolution of technology and riding style.

Aero is a part of that.

MM93 gave an interview where he said the bikes are getting less manual, in that there use to be more things the rider had to do to manage the bike. This made for more errors and more opportunity for other racers.

Maybe. Maybe not. Either way, it’s a data point.

IMO, aero is like smoke and mirrors - manipulation. Not only does it lend little or nothing to the quality of the racing, but also it eventually detracts from it (as we’re already seeing only a couple years into it - the wake from the lead rider impeding the following rider).

We started with frontal wings, then side wings, then swingarm scoops, then downwash ducts, then ground effects belly pans, then tail wings.

For what - a few tenths of a second over the non-aero bikes. lol

RickD996 · Dec 15, 2022

craig bush said:
Maybe. Maybe not. Either way, it’s a data point.

IMO, aero is like smoke and mirrors - manipulation. Not only does it lend little or nothing to the quality of the racing, but also it eventually detracts from it (as we’re already seeing only a couple years into it - the wake from the lead rider impeding the following rider).

We started with frontal wings, then side wings, then swingarm scoops, then downwash ducts, then ground effects belly pans, then tail wings.

For what - a few tenths of a second over the non-aero bikes. lol

A few tenths a lap, equal multiple seconds by the end of the race.

And at this level, those tenths cost big dollar.

craig bush · Dec 15, 2022

RickD996 said:
A few tenths a lap, equal multiple seconds by the end of the race.

And at this level, those tenths cost big dollar.

Sure.

But does that impact the quality of the racing, or your enjoyment of it as you watch? It doesn’t for me. I like close racing with passing, especially for the lead. If that’s happening, I doubt most people would notice (or care) if they’re turning 1:20.1 or 1:20.2 lap times.

Steven31371 · Dec 16, 2022

craig bush said:
Maybe. Maybe not. Either way, it’s a data point.

IMO, aero is like smoke and mirrors - manipulation. Not only does it lend little or nothing to the quality of the racing, but also it eventually detracts from it (as we’re already seeing only a couple years into it - the wake from the lead rider impeding the following rider).

We started with frontal wings, then side wings, then swingarm scoops, then downwash ducts, then ground effects belly pans, then tail wings.

For what - a few tenths of a second over the non-aero bikes. lol

That’s why they have racing classifications. There has to be a top class where you are pushing the envelope. Frankly I’d like to see no rules other than safety and maybe a spending cap in both F1 and MotoGP, other than that no holds barred on who can get the car around the track the fastest in those two classifications.

The other classes of racing, can have more equalizer rules because they are not about a team and driver producing the fastest result, they are about people racing people on a relatively equal playing field.

But at the very top, there has to be envelope pushing.

I’d love to see an open class car race series for cars where the only rules were a standardized survival envelope for the pilot, and maybe a cap of $120,000,000 on car development and build per season.

Jolly Roger V4 · Dec 16, 2022

Great Latte holders for sure. We can't stop progress I Guess. We're approaching the limits of hp and traction given a set contact patch. Another 100hp
wouldn't yield much faster lap times on a bike due to rideability and traction. Electronics can sort it out up to a certain point. All the lattes in the world haven't helped me
shave lap times, boo hoo...

JohnSmith · Dec 16, 2022

bp_SFV4 said:
Its super hard to gauge the effectiveness of aero just off of one track too. I don't think anyone can make a reasonable argument against a statement that the bikes are getting faster as a result of the evolution of technology and riding style.

Aero is a part of that.

MM93 gave an interview where he said the bikes are getting less manual, in that there use to be more things the rider had to do to manage the bike. This made for more errors and more opportunity for other racersAls

Also looking at just lap time doesnt tell the whole story, look at whole racetime - most races were well faster

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