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KarlKani said:
sachsenring is the closest thing to a go kart track on the calendar, not the best ref point for gauging lap times with aero
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Its super hard to gauge the effectiveness of aero just off of one track too. I don't think anyone can make a reasonable argument against a statement that the bikes are getting faster as a result of the evolution of technology and riding style.

Aero is a part of that.

MM93 gave an interview where he said the bikes are getting less manual, in that there use to be more things the rider had to do to manage the bike. This made for more errors and more opportunity for other racers.
 

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bp_SFV4 said:
Its super hard to gauge the effectiveness of aero just off of one track too. I don't think anyone can make a reasonable argument against a statement that the bikes are getting faster as a result of the evolution of technology and riding style.

Aero is a part of that.

MM93 gave an interview where he said the bikes are getting less manual, in that there use to be more things the rider had to do to manage the bike. This made for more errors and more opportunity for other racers.
Click to expand...

Before MotoGP nerfed the aero arms race Ducati had multiple wing setups for different tracks, just like F1….some tracks it’s better to have less downforce and less drag, other tracks it’s better to have more downforce and sacrifice having more drag.

I opted for their greatest downforce version, knowing I was gunna create drag, because I’m not fast enough yet to be doing close to 200 mph straights lol, but want the increased stability and grip.

Fairly easy to change the attack angle of the bottom wings later for less drag if I want to.
 
bp_SFV4 said:
Its super hard to gauge the effectiveness of aero just off of one track too. I don't think anyone can make a reasonable argument against a statement that the bikes are getting faster as a result of the evolution of technology and riding style.

Aero is a part of that.

MM93 gave an interview where he said the bikes are getting less manual, in that there use to be more things the rider had to do to manage the bike. This made for more errors and more opportunity for other racers.
Click to expand...

Maybe. Maybe not. Either way, it’s a data point.

IMO, aero is like smoke and mirrors - manipulation. Not only does it lend little or nothing to the quality of the racing, but also it eventually detracts from it (as we’re already seeing only a couple years into it - the wake from the lead rider impeding the following rider).

We started with frontal wings, then side wings, then swingarm scoops, then downwash ducts, then ground effects belly pans, then tail wings.

For what - a few tenths of a second over the non-aero bikes. lol
 
craig bush said:
Maybe. Maybe not. Either way, it’s a data point.

IMO, aero is like smoke and mirrors - manipulation. Not only does it lend little or nothing to the quality of the racing, but also it eventually detracts from it (as we’re already seeing only a couple years into it - the wake from the lead rider impeding the following rider).

We started with frontal wings, then side wings, then swingarm scoops, then downwash ducts, then ground effects belly pans, then tail wings.

For what - a few tenths of a second over the non-aero bikes. lol
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A few tenths a lap, equal multiple seconds by the end of the race.

And at this level, those tenths cost big dollar.
 
RickD996 said:
A few tenths a lap, equal multiple seconds by the end of the race.

And at this level, those tenths cost big dollar.
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Sure. :)

But does that impact the quality of the racing, or your enjoyment of it as you watch? It doesn’t for me. I like close racing with passing, especially for the lead. If that’s happening, I doubt most people would notice (or care) if they’re turning 1:20.1 or 1:20.2 lap times.
 
craig bush said:
Maybe. Maybe not. Either way, it’s a data point.

IMO, aero is like smoke and mirrors - manipulation. Not only does it lend little or nothing to the quality of the racing, but also it eventually detracts from it (as we’re already seeing only a couple years into it - the wake from the lead rider impeding the following rider).

We started with frontal wings, then side wings, then swingarm scoops, then downwash ducts, then ground effects belly pans, then tail wings.

For what - a few tenths of a second over the non-aero bikes. lol
Click to expand...

That’s why they have racing classifications. There has to be a top class where you are pushing the envelope. Frankly I’d like to see no rules other than safety and maybe a spending cap in both F1 and MotoGP, other than that no holds barred on who can get the car around the track the fastest in those two classifications.

The other classes of racing, can have more equalizer rules because they are not about a team and driver producing the fastest result, they are about people racing people on a relatively equal playing field.

But at the very top, there has to be envelope pushing.

I’d love to see an open class car race series for cars where the only rules were a standardized survival envelope for the pilot, and maybe a cap of $120,000,000 on car development and build per season.
 
Great Latte holders for sure. We can't stop progress I Guess. We're approaching the limits of hp and traction given a set contact patch. Another 100hp
wouldn't yield much faster lap times on a bike due to rideability and traction. Electronics can sort it out up to a certain point. All the lattes in the world haven't helped me
shave lap times, boo hoo...
 
bp_SFV4 said:
Its super hard to gauge the effectiveness of aero just off of one track too. I don't think anyone can make a reasonable argument against a statement that the bikes are getting faster as a result of the evolution of technology and riding style.

Aero is a part of that.

MM93 gave an interview where he said the bikes are getting less manual, in that there use to be more things the rider had to do to manage the bike. This made for more errors and more opportunity for other racersAls
Click to expand...

Also looking at just lap time doesnt tell the whole story, look at whole racetime - most races were well faster
 
KarlKani said:
Also looking at just lap time doesnt tell the whole story, look at whole racetime - most races were well faster
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& Top speeds - omg - 363.6 KPH 2022

When it's racing, development it's all about creating advantages. We're at a place in history when info is getting exchanged so quickly the top 10 riders qualify within .5 sec. Winning is within even 100ths. So any advantage...
That said, I agree with Craig that watching it hasn't improved much haha.

Look at these characters that have to perform under this. It used to be Biaggi out ....-talking Rossi, and Rossi, pulling a ballz-out maneuver no one ever saw before for the win on a shittier bike. It was personality against talent against courage against character.
Look at these guys now. Pecco, love him, stiff as a board. Goes for most of the field. They move like clocks.
Who can be more Swiss watch? The computer measures your fuckups and they dial in the program for the perfect averages for the whole team who has to behave like the engineers determined in Japan. Ready, go.

wtf. Where is this going?
The tech is the answer to go into super human realms, but...
At least Ducati always has the next level crazy & they're the most human team it would appear.
 
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I bet this is a moment where dudes are getting used to all of this massive push in tech.
There will be a plateau and guys will start getting personality into it again. Who can surf this stuff better will be back.
 
The human element is still everything, it's just the margins are smaller. As every team gets closer and closer to the same outcome, working on the same rules.

Which is why, rule changes are our friend.
 
It’s still the riders lol

I was chasing Tony Elias around the track for a few sessions, well not chasing, following, going as fast as I could on a bike with 90 more horsepower and he was casually pulling away from me any time he wanted to 😂😂😂

With no effort at all, while looking over his shoulder at me and waiving to keep up haha
 
And that's the part of motorcycling that makes it so rewarding, if you put the yards in its entirely possible to get within 10 seconds of the lap record on any modern stock superbike with sticky tires. At a certain point ever every second after that starts to get spendy, apparently it cost KTM 70 million euro to get on the podium so those last few 1/00th's are not cheap!
 
Paul G said:
And that's the part of motorcycling that makes it so rewarding, if you put the yards in its entirely possible to get within 10 seconds of the lap record on any modern stock superbike with sticky tires. At a certain point ever every second after that starts to get spendy, apparently it cost KTM 70 million euro to get on the podium so those last few 1/00th's are not cheap!
Click to expand...

Anyone heard of the F1 Red Bull cost cap debacle?
Was it $1m over budget? Which, could give a new carbon tub, which might save half a tenth per lap. Which equals seconds by the end of the race.
 
I like it. Mine should be here monday. I got a SBK tank cover too, but its going to need more prep work than I was thinking to put some type of finish on it.
 
bp_SFV4 said:
I like it. Mine should be here monday. I got a SBK tank cover too, but its going to need more prep work than I was thinking to put some type of finish on it.
Click to expand...

Mines in the passenger seat on the way to the painter to get it paint matched to the red that’s on the new fairings. Rosso Red versus the Anniversary Red that’s on there to match the old Foggy livery.

Sitting noticing higher on the bike.

Did you get yours raised in addition to flat and squared off at the sides?
 

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