Back in the shop

baggerman said:

Steven what's the condition of the crest etc?

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Hot as .... here today, and I’m going clockwise for the 1st time so still figuring out this direction, last session I felt comfortable enough to push just a bit, next session I’ll push harder.

Track feels good but I’m running SC1’s today and it’s probably a bit too hot for those, SC2 or even 3’s would be better in these conditions I think. The rear end just a tiny bit greasy but manageable.

I lowered the temp settings on my tire warmers for next session.

Steven31371 said:

Not yet

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Bedrooms tough. I have a 916 in the dining room.

That was a reply to no ducati in the bedroom. My wife recognizes the art that ducati's are. That being said her favorite GP rider is Quattanaro. Nobodies perfect.

All in all it was a good day at Chuckwalla Valley Raceway today.

My best laugh was three seconds faster than my previous best lab and most importantly, I have fun again on the bike and was seven or eight seconds faster than my last outing there.

Last two times out and especially the very last time out. I wasn’t having any fun on the bike. When you significantly change one ergonomic on the bike, it often causes a cascade of other changes that have to be made.

In the beginning of the year I could not get into a good top position, and my legs were too cramped for my size because I needed a taller seat, so we got a taller seat and lowered the foot pegs and then I could get into a good talk And get good Hooksen on the gas tank and was able to use the outside foot peg as a pivot point for the bike really well

But Then I started to notice that after about five laps my back and especially my neck was getting so tired that it was really uncomfortable to ride and no amount of working out was helping.

Then I made it worse just before the last track day by lowering the front and 3 mm. At that point, for the whole last track day, my upper body and neck or so uncomfortable, that I could not cite the track properly I tried to make the best of it so miserable out on track.

I couldn’t figure out why, even though I was working out like crazy my neck was getting so tired that I couldn’t even look down the track after a lap or two, and then I rode the gixxer, and then Ducati back to back to the shop and realized that my problem was that the seat was too high and the bars too low And it was putting me in a position that was really un-uncomfortable to the point where I felt like it was actually dangerous to go at track speeds cause I couldn’t properly sight the track.

I had solved the ergonomically issues of getting into a good tuck, and with the lower half of my body, but I made a bigger issue with my back and neck and ability to see the track.

That’s why I put the riser clipons on the bike, it’s not really good today, like everything was working, well together lower half of the body, the talk, the upper half of the body back at the neck, I can see the track again.

Not sure any of that will help anybody here unless you’re 6’3 250 pound 50 year old man trying to learn late in life how to go fast on a super bike around the track lol

Haha, just read that back, was using speech to text while driving home, so you’ll have to figure out the algorithm to make sense of that post lol, too late to edit it

Just about got the gist Steven - thought it might have been a dictated message, or too many lattes! Interesting update regardless.

cl955 said:

Just about got the gist Steven - thought it might have been a dictated message, or too many lattes! Interesting update regardless.

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Looked like latte overload to me too

Haha

The short version was that raising the seat and lowering the foot pegs helped me get into a good tuck on fast straights, and help me get a better pivot point with the outside foot peg at lean and to hook into the tank better at lean.

But with the seat that high and bars that low and forward, it wasn’t working for me because I’m a big middle aged guy with a touch of arthritis in my neck and back, so I was straining so hard to keep my head up to sight the track properly that I was exhausting myself after one lap…was like holding some diabolical Pilates position, and it was becoming dangerous and not fun because I couldn’t sight the track properly at speed.

Made for a VERY frustrating couple of track days. I couldn’t figure out why despite working out like crazy I couldn’t keep my head up and sight line down track.

Then I happened to ride the Gixxer and Ducati back to back and on the Gixxer I felt fine in the neck and back and could see down range just fine.

I realized my problem with the neck and back and sight line problems on the Ducati was that the bars were too low and the seat too high in relationship to each other. So I had solved the ergos for the lower half of the body but now the upper half was miserable, dangerously so at track speed because I was increasingly unable to sight down track properly, on long fast sweepers (which Chuckwalla has a lot of) especially.

The solution was putting those 35 mm riser clipons, they move the bars back toward me because the bars are mounted to the side of the fork tube instead of in front of them, and raised them upward 35mm, so I didn’t have to stay as flattened out on the bike when not in a full tuck. Coincidently the bars being side mounted effectively widened the distance between my hands, for a wider overall bar configuration, and that increased my overall leverage on the bars.

Yesterday I was able to see further down the track better, and overall felt comfortable on the bike again so I could just work on my riding form and skill sets.

Improved my overall best lap time by 3 seconds and was 7 seconds faster than my last outing at that track. Still fairly slow but felt great and had fun and feel like I’m not ‘stuck’ and can keep improving now.

Dunno how helpful any of that will be for most of you, but if anybody out there is a 6’3” 50 year old with a touch of arthritis or stiffness in their neck and spine, and a relatively new track rider those ergo adjustments might help lol

Raise the seat, lower the footpegs, and raise the bars upward and closer to you lol

One of the coaches there had a thumb brake on his bike and gave me some good tips on how to best use it.

Recommended using it to settle the bike as you are downshifting coming into the braking zone, and that worked great.

So you pop up from the tuck, gently apply the thumb brake just before and during the downshifts, then transition from gentle thumb brake to hard front braking.

Got to practice that a bit and it did make the bike feel more settled and smooth in that transition from wide open throttle to downshifting and hard braking on the front wheel.

A side note on Chuckwalla, I’ve been there Counter Clockwise I think 3 times now, and then Clockwise for the 1st time yesterday. If you’ve done it one direction it’s definitely easier to learn the track the other direction. The infamous off camber ‘crash corner’ is much easier to navigate CW but the longest straight is funner CCW because there is a crest where you are going somewhat blind into the braking zone when going CW, although that’s kinda fun when you get use to it.

It’s a fun track both directions but CCW is a bit funner I think.

One final report on yesterday, I ran Pirelli SC1 slicks front and back, I liked how the front felt but not the rear. Will try and SC1 front and SC2 rear next time out.

I dunno if I wasn’t maintaining temps right or what on the back wheel but I didn’t like mid-corner feel. The SC1 rear has a very squishy thick tread area, so squishing that when heated you can push your finger into it a quarter inch. Mid-corner it just felt like it was moving around too much…could be just bad riding technique but I’d like a firmer feel from the rear tire mid-corner than what I got from the SC1.

I got an odd sensation when transitioning from trail braking to on throttle like the rear was just slightly giving out under me, but then caught its grip…I think it was that thick super soft tread squirming, I didn’t love that. Might be because of my heavier rider weight was putting too much load on the transition from off throttle to throttle flexing the soft rear tire tread too much…either way a firmer contact patch on the rear felt better to me than the SC1 rear tire.

what was the temp?
what lap times are you running?
what pressure were you running?

KarlKani said:

what was the temp?
what lap times are you running?
what pressure were you running?

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Ambient temps were about 100F, no pyrometer for the tires but was running them at about 25 psi rear and 33 front…and was adjusting them throughout the day. The front felt best at 33 but the rear felt a little better at 26.5. But the rear still had what felt like tread squirm on the transition from off throttle to throttle all day, on a slick.

I was running in the high teens, 2:16-2:18 ish when at speed.

I might just be too slow to keep the SC1 rear loaded properly, that combined with may weight my be it

33 is low for a slick front, esp an SC1 when its 100f outside
25 isn't wrong for the rear
Do you check the tire pressure after you come in first couple sessions to gauge what the tires are doing while on track?
is there any indicating wear on tire from edge to meat?
the squirm could be many things, those times on that track tho you shouldn't be experiencing that. Track is very flowy, but perhaps big guy on big bike you might be waiting a bit too long to get on gas and maybe whacking it?

One there thing to consider as a big guy with tall seat and rider bars you are setting your central mass further away from the chasis mid corner

KarlKani said:

33 is low for a slick front, esp an SC1 when its 100f outside
25 isn't wrong for the rear
Do you check the tire pressure after you come in first couple sessions to gauge what the tires are doing while on track?
is there any indicating wear on tire from edge to meat?
the squirm could be many things, those times on that track tho you shouldn't be experiencing that. Track is very flowy, but perhaps big guy on big bike you might be waiting a bit too long to get on gas and maybe whacking it?

One there thing to consider as a big guy with tall seat and rider bars you are setting your central mass further away from the chasis mid corner

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To that last bit, it’s interesting, my tires still have about a quarter inch chicken strip, it’s interesting because when I look at the tires of guys with similar roll speeds through corners they are using all of their tire and are leaned over more…AT THE SAME SPEEDS….doesn’t make sense to me from a physics standpoint, but I think it has to do with my weight being higher, the center of mass being different, and me having 60 to 100 pounds more weight hanging off the side of the the bike than most guys. But it certainly means that the bike has a lot more corner roll speed with me on it than I’m carrying.


Yes to checking tire pressures coming off track, I was running the tire warmers at 120 with covering blankets to keep the heat in for the 1st session and when I came in off track the tire pressures were 2 psi lower, so I set the pressures a couple PSI higher on the warmers and left the blankets off, and reduced the tire warmer settings to 108 front and 104 rear. By the third session I had them pretty dialed in to being the right PSI coming off track, but still got that squirm feeling.

The SC1’s seem to produce a lot finer graining than I was getting on the SC3’s, and is pretty even from center to side.

KarlKani said:

perhaps big guy on big bike you might be waiting a bit too long to get on gas and maybe whacking it?

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That could be it, I’m pretty conscious about being smooth on the throttle, but the task I assigned myself yesterday was to get my corner entry speed up and not over brake. So I was carrying more corner speed into the corner, but not getting on the throttle as quickly. I noticed that I was leaving a longer pause between trail brake off and throttle on….I also switched to a 15 tooth front sprocket from a 16 and between waiting a bit longer to throttle on (less smooth transition from trail brake to throttle) and the gearing being slightly peakier I may have been causing the issue with rider error.

Steven31371 said:

To that last bit, it’s interesting, my tires still have about a quarter inch chicken strip, it’s interesting because when I look at the tires of guys with similar roll speeds through corners they are using all of their tire and are leaned over more…AT THE SAME SPEEDS….doesn’t make sense to me from a physics standpoint, but I think it has to do with my weight being higher, the center of mass being different, and me having 60 to 100 pounds more weight hanging off the side of the the bike than most guys. But it certainly means that the bike has a lot more corner roll speed with me on it than I’m carrying.


Yes to checking tire pressures coming off track, I was running the tire warmers at 120 with covering blankets to keep the heat in for the 1st session and when I came in off track the tire pressures were 2 psi lower, so I set the pressures a couple PSI higher on the warmers and left the blankets off, and reduced the tire warmer settings to 108 front and 104 rear. By the third session I had them pretty dialed in to being the right PSI coming off track, but still got that squirm feeling.

The SC1’s seem to produce a lot finer graining than I was getting on the SC3’s, and is pretty even from center to side

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are you talking c or f for warmerer temps?

KarlKani said:

are you talking c or f for warmerer temps?

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I assume Celsius as the highest setting on my warmers is 120

Steven31371 said:

I assume Celsius as the highest setting on my warmers is 120

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If you had the warmers set @ 120 C, that’s 100% your problem.

Water boils @ 100

The Pirelli’s need ~80 deg. C on the warmers

https://www.pirelli.com/tyres/en-ww/motorcycle/catalogue/product/diablo-superbike

burton said:

If you had the warmers set @ 120 C, that’s 100% your problem.

Water boils @ 100

The Pirelli’s need ~80 deg. C on the warmers

https://www.pirelli.com/tyres/en-ww/motorcycle/catalogue/product/diablo-superbike

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I always just assumed the numbers on the tire warmers were Celsius…because if it’s 120 degrees Fahrenheit that means they are maxing out at about 49 degrees Celsius.