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He's also running an extended swing arm wich very likely factors into things. Bet not on the numbers but the rider's testimony.
 
bp_SFV4 said:
He's also running an extended swing arm wich very likely factors into things. Bet not on the numbers but the rider's testimony.
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Maybe for many things. My understanding is that gearing is pretty straightforward - you want more torque and lower top speed, or less torque and more top speed.

Is there more to it than that at the track day level?
 
craig bush said:
Maybe for many things. My understanding is that gearing is pretty straightforward - you want more torque and lower top speed, or less torque and more top speed.

Is there more to it than that at the track day level?
Click to expand...

Well actually yes if you are also changing chain length on these bikes. If I go back to a 16/41 setup I really need to add a link or two to the chain because it’s turning really well right now. I sorta lucked into that, when I went to 15/41 I didn’t take a kink out and that lowered the rear end every so slightly, but it made the bike turn better so I want to keep the geometry where it’s at for now.

For better or worse simple gearing changes change the bike geometry significantly if you aren’t also adjusting the chain each time.
 
SuperDomestique said:
That might actually be a big positive to run the 15/41 then. Maybe trial 16/41 would be a good compromise?
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Yeah I was running a 16/41 setup on this track previously and was getting annoyed at where the shifts from 2nd to 3rd fell on the track, there are no long straights where you get above 120 ish, and the lowest speed corners are in the low 60 mph range, so the corners were too slow to stay in 3rd and get a good drive out of the corner and you didn’t shift to third until the end of the longer straights, so you’d have to shift then shift down almost immediately then go immediately into setting up the corner.

Made things very busy at the end of straights…with the current gearing combined with this tune giving me more power in the lower rpm’s I could stay in third, have one less thing to focus on at the end of a straight, and work on my corner entry and roll speed and line and body position and sighting etc.
 
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Steven31371 said:
Well actually yes if you are also changing chain length on these bikes. If I go back to a 16/41 setup I really need to add a link or two to the chain because it’s turning really well right now. I sorta lucked into that, when I went to 15/41 I didn’t take a kink out and that lowered the rear end every so slightly, but it made the bike turn better so I want to keep the geometry where it’s at for now.

For better or worse simple gearing changes change the bike geometry significantly if you aren’t also adjusting the chain each time.
Click to expand...

I agree - that’s all sound theory.

My assertion is that in practice, the vast majority of people at the track day level won’t appreciate these subtle differences. I suspect if you blinded the ride to the changes, 99% of us couldn’t ride two bikes back to back and consistently identify the one that’s 2mm lower in rear ride height, and a centimeter shorter in wheelbase.
 
craig bush said:
I agree - that’s all sound theory.

My assertion is that in practice, the vast majority of people at the track day level won’t appreciate these subtle differences. I suspect if you blinded the ride to the changes, 99% of us couldn’t ride two bikes back to back and consistently identify the one that’s 2mm lower in rear ride height, and a centimeter shorter in wheelbase.
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I dunno man, I’m still a pretty novice rider and can pretty easily tell the differences, and even if being able to feel the differences isn’t making me faster they do make me feel better or worse on the bike, which directly affects how much fun I’m having, and the rate at which I’m improving….the bike felt really good to me this weekend, and that combined with a format that let me go out and do 5 laps and rest for 10 minutes then go right back out (I approached it like interval training) allowed me to makes some pretty big leaps forward in my times and riding ability this weekend.
 
Steven31371 said:
Well actually yes if you are also changing chain length on these bikes. If I go back to a 16/41 setup I really need to add a link or two to the chain because it’s turning really well right now. I sorta lucked into that, when I went to 15/41 I didn’t take a kink out and that lowered the rear end every so slightly, but it made the bike turn better so I want to keep the geometry where it’s at for now.

For better or worse simple gearing changes change the bike geometry significantly if you aren’t also adjusting the chain each time.
Click to expand...

That's why you use a ride height tool Steven, and adjust shock length to compensate as appropriate 😉
 
Steven31371 said:
...there are no long straights where you get above 120 ish, and the lowest speed corners are in the low 60 mph range
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C'mon Steven, twist that bitch!

Though my slowest speed around crash hill is well below 60 :)

IMG_2104.jpeg
 
Steven31371 said:
I dunno man, I’m still a pretty novice rider and can pretty easily tell the differences,
Click to expand...

You’ve done multiple, blind back-to-back tests and found you can consistently notice subtle differences without being told ahead of time what changes were being made?

If not, then you don’t really know. Might be an unpleasant reality, but reality often is. Either way, you know I support modding your bike however you like. The only meaningful justification at our level is “because I want to”. :)
 
craig bush said:
You’ve done multiple, blind back-to-back tests and found you can consistently notice subtle differences without being told ahead of time?
Click to expand...

No but what you are reallly talking about is expectation, if you expect something you usually get it, or think you do.

But probably wrongly so I make adjustments with the expectation that it’s the right direction every track day, and definitely feel when it’s not.

I think it’s a sensitivity issue, some people are more sensitive to subtleties, others less so on a spectrum.

I spent decades meditating fastidiously, that has an affect of slowing things down and being aware of increasingly finer subtleties in other parts of life.

I may be the exception not the norm though.
 
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Completely agree, CW the drive is probably 1/2 onto the back straight as CCW.

The wind back there gets really hairy, makes me hesitant to track out to the edge for fear of an off-road adventure.
 
Funny thing about the wind in the clockwise direction, on turn three of the outlaw I kept feeling like something was wrong with the bike because I couldn’t get it to lean and turn, felt like the bike was abnormally resisting me, like a lot…but only on that turn.

The wind was blowing so hard perpendicular on that corner that it was standing me and the bike up
 

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