Back in the shop

JohnSmith · Dec 17, 2023

KarlKani said:
My Main gripe about this tank seat thing is that no one has this, no one has ever seen this + they make parts for dirt bikes. Sure Kramer uses a similar one, but also they are not 200hp. What kind of flex will be happening with a 200+ lb rider? There are plenty of tank covers with different sizes and shapes to get a better locked on feel, I have always complained about tank shape on ducati from xx99 to V4 - it has always been one of the first things I do.

^^^^^^

SuperDomestique · Dec 17, 2023

andyb said:
google cynicism, sarcasm and irony.

Google Stage 5 Clinger

andyb · Dec 17, 2023

Got you down as a stage 2 clinger

Steven31371 · Dec 17, 2023

KarlKani said:
^^^^^^

Yeah but if nobody ever tries something new, you never find anything better.

Also, I’m not sure the motoholders setup doesn’t flex under my weight too but you just can’t see it because it’s not attached to the tank making the tank move an eighth of an inch at the opposite end of the lever.

We’ll only really know how it is when we get it to track, the Australian guy on here has a fast buddy that seems to like it…we’ll see.

baggerman · Dec 17, 2023

Steven31371 said:
All good points to look out for…with a caveat, a fair amount of weight is distributed to the foot pegs when I’m at lean angle, and it’s largely lateral weight on the side of the tank on the unit itself and there doesn’t seem to be any lateral flex.

I only noticed flex when putting all my weight on my ass in the furthest back position in the seat. Something that in active riding at track doesn’t happen that much…still something to think about. I’m also not convinced it’s a bad thing because a little flex in the chassis can be a good thing. I’m very curious to see how feel is affected on track though, as it was setup I got VERY good feel on what the tire grip was doing with the Motoholders and Raceseats.it setup, will be interesting to see how much feel you get through this setup.

I emailed Rade about the actual useable fuel volume. I'm hoping it's 19L/5 gal as claimed. They actually didn't really know so they said they'd measure the volume of the next one off the mold. I see the flex issue and the heat issue as one. If heat allows that material to flex more then you should add a brace. Flat stock between the tank and their mount (using both mounting points) extending back to the appropriate point under the tank and run a crossbrace. Paint it like the tank and it will disappear. I guess I need to study the material characteristics. May not be able to use this on the street. These bikes transfer a lot of heat into the tank. And the reflective shielding only really changes the time constant not the ultimate temperature.

Steven31371 · Dec 17, 2023

baggerman said:
I emailed Rade about the actual useable fuel volume. I'm hoping it's 19L/5 gal as claimed. They actually didn't really know so they said they'd measure the volume of the next one off the mold. I see the flex issue and the heat issue as one. If heat allows that material to flex more then you should add a brace. Flat stock between the tank and their mount (using both mounting points) extending back to the appropriate point under the tank and run a crossbrace. Paint it like the tank and it will disappear. I guess I need to study the material characteristics. May not be able to use this on the street. These bikes transfer a lot of heat into the tank. And the reflective shielding only really changes the time constant not the ultimate temperature.

Yeah I’m going to liberally apply some ceramic adhesive heat shield, also I rarely ride it on the street and at the track it’s 20 minute sessions so hopefully less heat sink…curious to find out.

baggerman · Dec 17, 2023

Actually the natural melting point is 190 C. Should be OK. There's tons of variants of this, different colors, different fillers etc. All with slightly different characteristics. I'd still make a brace. Repetitive flexing will eventually crack it.

baggerman · Dec 17, 2023

Too bad they didn't extend their tank mount backwards and pick up a third point. Looks totally doable from the pictures.

Steven31371 · Dec 17, 2023

baggerman said:
Too bad they didn't extend their tank mount backwards and pick up a third point. Looks totally doable from the pictures.

Yeah or widen the distance between the two mounting points, though in fairness it’s a track part, and they aren’t going to engineer them for the atypical 240lbs rider…to be clear, it’s a small amount of flex when all of my 240 lbs is on the furthest back part of the seat.

Don’t want to over dramatize it.

SuperDomestique · Dec 17, 2023

baggerman said:
Actually the natural melting point is 190 C. Should be OK. There's tons of variants of this, different colors, different fillers etc. All with slightly different characteristics. I'd still make a brace. Repetitive flexing will eventually crack it.

But do you have practical experience on this???-andyb

I saw the Tm was 190 and 125 was the stable long-term temp. Maybe bond a few layers of carbon to the subframe area would strengthen it. Or maybe extend the brackets.

The Kramer seat/tank is more triangulated with the mounts more vertical so it cantilevers downward force more acutely to the lower mount. The Ducati Rade tank is more cantilevered and that’s why it’s flexing. If you have a little static flex it’ll be more when things forces are dynamic. The heat will also soften the plastic. Hope this isn’t the case and that your weight is concentrated over the bracket and this is a non issue

baggerman · Dec 17, 2023

I think I'll just weld onto and extend their mount backwards and integrate my bag mounts. If this doesn't hold more gas I'll probably pass. Last trip I ran out of gas twice (the second time by area 51 when I was trying to see how fast it would go sitting upright didn't help). My stock tank only holds 4.05 gal. I don't care what the spec says the first time I pushed it to the gas station about 100 yds away from where I ran out and filled it with the bike straight up and down 4.05. So I'm attempting to stone two birds simultaneously.

Steven31371 · Dec 17, 2023

baggerman said:
I think I'll just weld onto and extend their mount backwards and integrate my bag mounts. If this doesn't hold more gas I'll probably pass. Last trip I ran out of gas twice (the second time by area 51 when I was trying to see how fast it would go sitting upright didn't help). My stock tank only holds 4.05 gal. I don't care what the spec says the first time I pushed it to the gas station about 100 yds away from where I ran out and filled it with the bike straight up and down 4.05. So I'm attempting to stone two birds simultaneously.

I can’t remember the name of it but there is a Japanese company that makes enduro tanks for these with higher capacity…it’s mentioned in one of these threads.

JohnSmith · Dec 17, 2023

Beater tanks
https://beater-japan.com/?cat=12

JohnSmith · Dec 17, 2023

if you dare put a Japanese part on a Ducati, ultimate jinx - no victories possible

SuperDomestique · Dec 17, 2023

baggerman said:
I think I'll just weld onto and extend their mount backwards and integrate my bag mounts. If this doesn't hold more gas I'll probably pass. Last trip I ran out of gas twice (the second time by area 51 when I was trying to see how fast it would go sitting upright didn't help). My stock tank only holds 4.05 gal. I don't care what the spec says the first time I pushed it to the gas station about 100 yds away from where I ran out and filled it with the bike straight up and down 4.05. So I'm attempting to stone two birds simultaneously.

Attach a Jerry can to the rear and tap a hole into the back of this tank. Boom extended range

Steven31371 · Dec 17, 2023

So good news, it’s not the seat flexing, when I pulled it off and put it on the floor there is no flex.

The issue is with 4 rubber bushings at the mounting points, they are too soft, and need to be replaced with nylon bushing in my opinion.

The 4 rubber bushing let it cantilever a bit.

Anyone have a good source for nylon or harder plastic bushings?

JohnSmith · Dec 17, 2023

that's good catch, but I have to say that indicates a pretty poor design. But better that then something else that you cannot fix

SuperDomestique · Dec 17, 2023

I wonder why they went with rubber instead of plastic or metal? Maybe solid mounting puts too much stress on the holes or a vibration thing. I’m sure there’s a design reason.

Either way grab a rod of Delrin and have a machine shop lathe 4 bushes to the size you need. Prob take them 5 mins.

BP PanigaleV4S · Dec 17, 2023

KarlKani said:
but I have to say that indicates a pretty poor design.

Maybe it was intended to solve or prevent another problem? It seems more like an early adopter problem than a poor design.

Steven31371 · Dec 17, 2023

bp_SFV4 said:
Maybe it was intended to solve or prevent another problem? It seems more like an early adopter problem than a poor design.

I suspect that it wouldn’t be much of an issue for lighter rider. But for me some Dellrin is needed for sure.

Might be able to find what on need on Alibabba or something…will keep you posted.

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