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I personally believe there should never (let me repeat that never) be an accountant on any design team. If there's a cost target that's needs to be driven by the team leader. No good ever happens from allowing accountants in the room. Even worse when you have a design related field quality issue. If the accountants are in the room the wrong decision is always made. I be talking to you Ducati.
 
SuperDomestique said:
I get it. Sounds like he got pushed around by Gigi and the accountants. Time will tell…
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No one got pushed around, its a result of years of development.

baggerman said:
I personally believe there should never (let me repeat that never) be an accountant on any design team. If there's a cost target that's needs to be driven by the team leader. No good ever happens from allowing accountants in the room. Even worse when you have a design related field quality issue. If the accountants are in the room the wrong decision is always made. I be talking to you Ducati.
Click to expand...

Sorry but you do need an accountant as much as an engineer, you can build a motogp for the street no problem but they will cost a million bucks each and 100k a year to run. That market is next to nothing in the grand scheme, so the bean counters make sure various depts stick to their budgets and at the end of the day the idea is that Ducati turns a profit. That is what business is all about or have we all become socialists now?
 
Paul G said:
No one got pushed around, its a result of years of development.



Sorry but you do need an accountant as much as an engineer, you can build a motogp for the street no problem but they will cost a million bucks each and 100k a year to run. That market is next to nothing in the grand scheme, so the bean counters make sure various depts stick to their budgets and at the end of the day the idea is that Ducati turns a profit. That is what business is all about or have we all become socialists now?
Click to expand...

They also produce a bike more expensive every year… Ducati is nickel and diming the margins on this new bike. Not only is it more expensive but also cheaper to produce. Ducati needs to rely on these big margins bc they don’t have the volume Japanese manufacturers have. Basically, Japanese superbikes are a side hustle for them. A halo product that they can use for marketing. The bread and butter is cheap high volume scooters and low cc bikes that are all over Asia.

1.5 sec is barely a significant performance upgrade.
 
Paul G said:
No one got pushed around, its a result of years of development.



Sorry but you do need an accountant as much as an engineer, you can build a motogp for the street no problem but they will cost a million bucks each and 100k a year to run. That market is next to nothing in the grand scheme, so the bean counters make sure various depts stick to their budgets and at the end of the day the idea is that Ducati turns a profit. That is what business is all about or have we all become socialists now?
Click to expand...

The accountants shouldn't be used to keep budgets in line the department heads better be doing that. As far as that goes why internal accountants at all. With modern ERP/MRP you can generate any report, chart etc. that you would need to manage with. So a CFO (or a clerk really) reading the various reports and an outside accounting firm verifying the results. Internal accountants totally wasted overhead and IMHO will soon be a thing of the past. AI can run accounts payable/receivable. Accountants have no place ever making any decision in an engineering firm, again particularly with respect to fixing field issues.
 
baggerman said:
The accountants shouldn't be used to keep budgets in line the department heads better be doing that. As far as that goes why internal accountants at all. With modern ERP/MRP you can generate any report, chart etc. that you would need to manage with. So a CFO (or a clerk really) reading the various reports and an outside accounting firm verifying the results. Internal accountants totally wasted overhead and IMHO will soon be a thing of the past. AI can run accounts payable/receivable. Accountants have no place ever making any decision in an engineering firm, again particularly with respect to fixing field issues.
Click to expand...

This bike has VAG written all over it
 
baggerman said:
The accountants shouldn't be used to keep budgets in line the department heads better be doing that. As far as that goes why internal accountants at all. With modern ERP/MRP you can generate any report, chart etc. that you would need to manage with. So a CFO (or a clerk really) reading the various reports and an outside accounting firm verifying the results. Internal accountants totally wasted overhead and IMHO will soon be a thing of the past. AI can run accounts payable/receivable. Accountants have no place ever making any decision in an engineering firm, again particularly with respect to fixing field issues.
Click to expand...

When someone mentions accountants in a disparaging way, they are talking in general terms about a manu cutting corners at the expense of building an artwork. Anyway the new Pani is gorgeous and I am sure in a year or two these kinds of conversations about its merits will be consigned to the dustbin of history. Went for a good ride today and my "old" bike feels absolutely amazing, I got thinking how are they going to improve on this? The current V4 is such a sweet bike to ride, btw not all of us are chasing that last 1/10th at the trackday world championship!
 
SuperDomestique said:
They also produce a bike more expensive every year… Ducati is nickel and diming the margins on this new bike. Not only is it more expensive but also cheaper to produce. Ducati needs to rely on these big margins bc they don’t have the volume Japanese manufacturers have. Basically, Japanese superbikes are a side hustle for them. A halo product that they can use for marketing. The bread and butter is cheap high volume scooters and low cc bikes that are all over Asia.

1.5 sec is barely a significant performance upgrade.
Click to expand...

I brought the bread and butter was the job of scramblers and hypers and monsters - essentially any bike other than the ones carrying V4 engines
 
Paul G said:
When someone mentions accountants in a disparaging way, they are talking in general terms about a manu cutting corners at the expense of building an artwork. Anyway the new Pani is gorgeous and I am sure in a year or two these kinds of conversations about its merits will be consigned to the dustbin of history. Went for a good ride today and my "old" bike feels absolutely amazing, I got thinking how are they going to improve on this? The current V4 is such a sweet bike to ride, btw not all of us are chasing that last 1/10th at the trackday world championship!
Click to expand...

Sorry that was a tad harsh. I've been witness and bear scars from bad decisions made. Ultimately the manufacturing VP or COO always owns the problem even when in dissent.
 
 
CSV4 said:
how are they trying to position it?
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VAG bought Ducati for corporate average fuel economy and smog numbers. They realize that this is a dying industry that ultimately will be killed but legislation and they're going to milk every dollar out of Ducati and they will continue to drive their core customer base away with ridiculous parts and repair costs. If the cost of a 1200S monster desmo service is $1500 a V4 desmo service is $3500 and up. I lot of guys buy these bikes totally ignorantly. Go look to see how many with low mileage are for sale.
 
CSV4 said:
how are they trying to position it?
Click to expand...

High margin. Lower production costs. Increase MSRP. Amortize R&D. Ride the marketing hype.

Just look at the cringey collabs they’ve done w Lambo, Bentley, Bulgari, and Supreme let alone the celebration bikes. Notice that it’s more prevalent lately. These collabs don’t cost Ducati a dime (or minimally) yet they’re sold for a premium. They are milking this cow for all its worth.

I’m all for maximizing profits but not at the expense of diluting your brand. If anything, Ducati should be pivoting hard to electric to get into that space ahead of competitors.
 
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It is under Lambo in the org chart so why wouldn't they? At some point VW might spin it out like Ferrari.

Lambo, Bentley, Audi and Ducati are all in the same "group" in VW so not surprising. Agree that the celebration bikes are moronic - hopefully they won't do more of that.

Who's ahead of Ducati in the electric space? HD's not racing electric bikes
 
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CSV4 said:
It is under Lambo in the org chart so why wouldn't they? At some point VW might spin it out like Ferrari.

Lambo, Bentley, Audi and Ducati are all in the same "group" in VW so not surprising. Agree that the celebration bikes are moronic - hopefully they won't do more of that.

Who's ahead of Ducati in the electric space? HD's not racing electric bikes
Click to expand...

You don’t see these collabs go the other way. You don’t see Lambo do a Ducati inspired car. Or Bulgari do motorcycle inspired jewelry or whatever they do… also just noticed that they must have a deal w LVMH. Interesting 🤔 I wonder if Ducati has some sort of exclusivity deal going on

Electric bikes are being dominated by small companies. I’d like to see Stark put out a road version of their VARG. If Japanese manufacturers get to low-cost electrics to replace all these scooters and low-cc bikes in Asia they’re going to make a killing
 
It's a weird business strategy $30,000 disposable motorcycles. The dealer base doesn't have good enough technicians to service the highend stuff. And Ducati continues to service parts at an ever increasing level of assembly for parts that are already ridiculously priced. I've not found a service longblock listed for the V4's. They do not trust their dealers to do the work. Blow a motor up and get a dealer quote on replacement. Better to part it out and buy another one. VAG ultimately wants Ducati to become HD with it's totally ignorant customer base.
 

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