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New Fireblade had many big updates (split throttle bodies, new chassis, a few new engine internals not pumps) and only went up $100. New Panigale got some minor updates (no the DSSA isn’t a major update) and went up $4k
 
It's called business, when you're on a roll cash in. Also Honda kind of sucks in GP and WSBK at the moment so win on Sunday and ask a premium on Monday doesn't work quite as well
 
I've always believed HD will be one of the best shorts of the new century, after Tesla of course. From a guy who still own's 6 Ducati's I think Ducati's shitting in their nest. My two riding buddies, who have 24 between them, think the same thing.

Ducati is has always been brand that pushes performance boundaries and it has always been more expensive than the competition, Harley whose main appeal is their history and Americanness also charges a premium. Just because Ducati is winning GP's and translating that to their Superbikes is not nest shitting, you can always buy a Monster or Supersport but it you want MotoGP for the street you are going to have to pay.

The bigger picture is the erosion of buying power among the middle classes, that this generation will not be as prosperous as their parents. Thats systemic and a much harder fix, but this board is populated with mostly men with the means to buy these very expensive niche toys so not really representative of the motorcycling population. Plenty here actually finance these things, the bank owns the bikes while others are very wealthy and to whom the cost is noise in the data but regardless of that Ducati make something people want and prepared to pay for the privilege.
 
Thought this same thing but instead of HD they want Ducati to be the Ferrari of motorcycles. To be a luxury item. Soon they’ll become unattainable. They’ve already become unaffordable. Ducati should be careful bc it could all backfire and they could turn into HD and be in the financial mess they’ve been in

Will never be Ferrari... they sell what 60k motorcycles a year? that's more like porsche numbers - think that's what they're doing anyway by emphasizing the Panigale.
 
Ducati is has always been brand that pushes performance boundaries and it has always been more expensive than the competition, Harley whose main appeal is their history and Americanness also charges a premium. Just because Ducati is winning GP's and translating that to their Superbikes is not nest shitting, you can always buy a Monster or Supersport but it you want MotoGP for the street you are going to have to pay.

The bigger picture is the erosion of buying power among the middle classes, that this generation will not be as prosperous as their parents. Thats systemic and a much harder fix,
You make my point. This generation has in many ways been neutered by their dependence on electrons. So they'll also be less capable of fixing or maintaining their toys without assistance which means some of them wouldn't be able to afford them at all, so you continue to shrink your customer base. Do you think monster or supersport parts are cheaper? Volkswagen beetles were some of the biggest POS relative to reliability. Everyone remembers them fondly (except me who was always working on his sisters for free) because parts were cheap and they were easy to work on. Head drop a valve seat? No problem because a remanufactured head was the cost of a case of beer. If you are building a marginally reliable product and charging exorbitant prices for parts and service thru an incompetent service network can this be a good longterm strategy? I suggest they keep winning GP's.
 
If you’re in the economics sector I’ll defer to you but as a middle classer here in the US. I got a 22% pay increase (big market correction) last year so my pay is good. Super happy w my compensation even before.

In general though, compensation in the IS is finally outpacing inflation. But there’s a fine line for it outpacing inflation too much. NZ might be different.

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If the 2025 is $5K (roughly) over the 2021, my earnings have increased over that for sure, but the issue becomes what one is willing to spend on a non-essential product that will only depreciate, outside of very limited circumstances.

The Ducati price creep, accessories included, will make buyers more likely to shop other brands. Ducati is cashing in while they're on fire, which I can hardly blame them for.
 
I guess you don't understand how the market works or what forces are at play. Regardless of the silly hp argument, the new bike is going to be better performing and that is a fact. I guarantee the only time people here use all the horses on the street for more than a few seconds is about 2% of the time because its entirely possible to break all the local speeding laws in first and definitely second gear. So wanking on about ultimate numbers is for the tiny pecker brigade. What is far more interesting is the torque and power curves which have been progressively flatter as euro regs kick in due to reducing valve overlap. The huge benefit has been a fatter flatter midrange which is where riders need the power. As for the rip off Akra, what can you do? How about just don't buy one- there Ive saved you10k!
Did they actually reduce overlap on the 25's? They added lift that's where the HP increase came from. As you increase lift while holding the duration constant, which is what they do with the R cams as the timing is pretty much the same as the regular V4 cams, the flanks of the cams have to be more aggressive which equals shorter guide life. And there's a mechanical limit to the valve acceleration vs overlap. But more cam equals more power so when the motors deristricted the new ones will be faster. I've been looking at the V4 heads, really nice. We'll probably see yet greater lifts from the production cams as improving those heads will be tough. I wonder when they'll go to the R injectors but maybe they can't get a 1103 to pass smog with the big injectors.
 
No need for AI. You can easily find it on the Internet's... No mention of longer duration on the new cams, just higher lift. New bike has less power AND torque. I'd love to see the 2025's dyno graphs

Screenshot 2024-08-12 at 8.08.48 PM.png
 
Thanks SD. So really not much more but more lift particularly on the intake side is always good. The derestricted new ones will have marginally more power assuming the exhaust is at least as efficient as the previous version. bp some peoples knowledge comes from actually doing stuff. You realize that at this point I totally grok (obscure cultural reference from my youth) the ECU programming. Some people do and some people pay. It's a different approach to life driven by intellectual curiosity and ADHD.
 
this forum is blessed to have such an amazing braintrust of engineering and business acumen.
In all humility (ok not really) I suspect if Ducati paid me enough and rented me a villa in Italy I'd come and show them how to reduce their quality costs (my lack of ability to speak/understand Italian might be problematic). The issue with most management in plenty of companies is lack of breadth of skillset. And those with the narrowest skill sets always seem to have the least to do and consequently are always the worse political actors internally. The need to constantly raise prices to maintain your margins is sloppy management. Let the derision begin but I have run manufacturing/Operations in multiple tech companies (and brought two failing ones back to profitability).
 
Here's a nugget of insight - the Italians have zero interest in having anyone from outside of Italy contributing to their process.

Also what is not being brought up in our forum analysis is that the super bike market is diminishing drastically.
 

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