Critique Me

Twistedracer said:

Uh oh , trade time?

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I think you said you did 54 degree on left side?

Wow that's far down and probably almost pushing the limit of stock OEM tire?

I think I've been hitting 52 at T Hill East.

I think your position looks good.
Don't kill yourself trying to look like Marquez out there.
If you watch WSBK, take a look at Rea. He's rides more upright compared to the rest of the field, and he's basically unstoppable.

flobrandx said:

Looking good out there imparting!

I agree, Ken Hill's Podcasts are awesome and full of great info. One thing that Ken does talk about is that body position is lower on his priority list and you can be a very fast rider with less than stellar body position. Bike placement, vision, and brakes are all higher on his list of what to focus on.

For example, take a look at Toprack Razgatlioglu in WSSTK, and you can see his body position doesn't effect how damn fast he is. He just doesn't appear as fluid or exaggerated with his body but it doesn't effect his ability to win.

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Agree. More things are important in going fast than body position. However, good BP is helpful for making good pics though...

youngR said:

I think you said you did 54 degree on left side?

Wow that's far down and probably almost pushing the limit of stock OEM tire?

I think I've been hitting 52 at T Hill East.

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53 on the left side. But still a little edge left.

jmparton said:

Agree. More things are important in going fast than body position. However, good BP is helpful for making good pics though...

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Pics are the most important
I'm bummed the photographer didn't shoot me in T9 Saturday. That's my 53 degree left.

Twistedracer said:

Looking at your pics your chest seems 3/4 off the tank. I'm only halfway. I'll work for more.

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I wouldn't worry about being that specific. It's like others have said, people are going to have varying styles and style doesn't necessarily preclude how quick you lap a circuit. I have always tried to mimic a "balanced" form on the bike, meaning not too upright but not hanging too far off either. I believe the more important aspects are: where do you have your weight on the bike and where are you relaxed. For example, entering a corner you are upright, and weight on your arms and hands for stability and to get feedback from the front end while braking. As you initiate the turn, your weight then transfers to the inside foot while the arms, especially the inside one, start to relax and the shoulder and head drop. As you start to accelerate, then the weight starts to transition to the outside foot and butt in order to start standing the bike back up and provide feedback from the rear. Anyway, I would focus more on some of these points and I believe the body position will start to come naturally. Looking at your photos, once you start picking up some more speed, you'll make some great pictures.

53 degrees, a bit of edge left. 26 psi cold.

jmparton said:

I wouldn't worry about being that specific. It's like others have said, people are going to have varying styles and style doesn't necessarily preclude how quick you lap a circuit. I have always tried to mimic a "balanced" form on the bike, meaning not too upright but not hanging too far off either. I believe the more important aspects are: where do you have your weight on the bike and where are you relaxed. For example, entering a corner you are upright, and weight on your arms and hands for stability and to get feedback from the front end while braking. As you initiate the turn, your weight then transfers to the inside foot while the arms, especially the inside one, start to relax and the shoulder and head drop. As you start to accelerate, then the weight starts to transition to the outside foot and butt in order to start standing the bike back up and provide feedback from the rear. Anyway, I would focus more on some of these points and I believe the body position will start to come naturally. Looking at your photos, once you start picking up some more speed, you'll make some great pictures.

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Balance on the R feels very good. Very comfortable heeled over to my left. In fact on the long left T9 my inside hand just rests lightly on the bar. T9's length makes it easier to spend time on body position. Now T7 I definitely need to get more consistent on body position.

Prescription: More track time.

Twistedracer said:

Uh oh , trade time?

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Lol.. no, not yet.. eventually for sure!

gramps said:

As others have said I'm no Rossi but I have learned a lot from YCRS. The video below shows some of the things that have helped me and the model isn't bad either. Pay close attention to inside foot position. That one thing made a big difference in body position. Especially with a higher peg position.

[youtube]Z69KT4ShM6Y[/youtube]

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Umm where they talking bikes? All I heard was Jennifer.

I guess I've been reading most of Nicks stuff throughout my life. I've been practicing what he was talking about.
Interestingly is what's been said about braking and body position. These days everyone is talking about squeezing the tank while braking and using things like Stompgrip or Techspec.
Going into the braking zone I've already shifted into position for the corner so there's no squeezing the tank. Ken and Nick reinforced that I'm doing this part right.

Now back to Jennifer........

Twistedracer said:

Umm where they talking bikes? All I heard was Jennifer.

I guess I've been reading most of Nicks stuff throughout my life. I've been practicing what he was talking about.
Interestingly is what's been said about braking and body position. These days everyone is talking about squeezing the tank while braking and using things like Stompgrip or Techspec.
Going into the braking zone I've already shifted into position for the corner so there's no squeezing the tank. Ken and Nick reinforced that I'm doing this part right.

Now back to Jennifer........

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Yeah, I'm not sure where this squeezing the tank while braking comes from. When you're braking and entering a corner, you should already be shifting off of the seat. It's one of the things that helped me to stop slowing my corner entry. Watching the pros, you can see that they have the weight on their arms and have their lower body unweighted and getting into position. It's actually part of Ken's explanation of the "leg dangle".

Depends on what school you go to, California Superbike School tells you to slide your butt off but keep both knees in contact with the bike to hold yourself in place with loose arms so you can steer, then "open up" after you steer.

mtb said:

Depends on what school you go to, California Superbike School tells you to slide your butt off but keep both knees in contact with the bike to hold yourself in place with loose arms so you can steer, then "open up" after you steer.

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I agree with this. Pridmore teaches a style more similar to Johnny Rea or Josh Hayes with less moving around on the bike. The explanation being that most mortals lose the feeling for what is going on with the bike if they have stretched their body to the limit. Not sure if I'm explaining that properly. Basically he acknowledged that moving weight around is absolutely beneficial, but not at the expense of feel. A demonstration he used was to have us hanging off as far as we possibly could on a static bike, then tapping the brake rotor lightly with a pencil while you held the brake lever. Nobody felt it when we were hanging off as far as possible, but when we relaxed an inch or so everyone did.

I've also taken YCRS and found the body positioning work absolutely beneficial. It's one of those things where I think the best thing to do is understand exactly how body positioning affects the chassis etc, then take the strategies that work with your body and go from there. I think one problem that most people have is they hear they need to adopt a certain riding style, but have no clue how that is actually affecting the chassis.

If you have flexibility of a gymnast, then by all means get your body out there though. Assuming you still have feeling for what is going on, the science says its beneficial. One other thing to note, watch road racing or endurance racing, they move around a ton less and are still fast as hell.

This pic is my natural old school riding style. Upper body slightly curved inward, sitting taller. Right forearm lightly against tank.






This second pic I'm working on the more modern style. Right forearm presses harder on tank, and I feel stretched. Being only 5'7" , arms and legs don't stretch far. It does make a more aggressive look though. Just not a natural feel yet.







Pic from bike behind me. My natural position. Working on changing it.

Twistedracer said:

But but I don't like winky eye face. Now the new HP4 track version

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You and me both!

Bike looks amazing out there! Nice setup.

Like some have already mentioned, feel/comfort is important. In my mind, the goal is to keep the bike as upright as possible to keep the most contact patch down on the track. The reason to hang off the side of the bike is to counter-balance this. As the speed comes up or the radius of the turn decreases, the angle will need to increase to compensate.

I've got a lot to learn, but slowly picking it up. Running 2:23's @ COTA, but I'd still get beat by most of the Moto3 guys.. Couple pics on my diff bikes, but same corner:

MotoX183 said:

Bike looks amazing out there! Nice setup.

Like some have already mentioned, feel/comfort is important. In my mind, the goal is to keep the bike as upright as possible to keep the most contact patch down on the track. The reason to hang off the side of the bike is to counter-balance this. As the speed comes up or the radius of the turn decreases, the angle will need to increase to compensate.

I've got a lot to learn, but slowly picking it up. Running 2:23's @ COTA, but I'd still get beat by most of the Moto3 guys.. Couple pics on my diff bikes, but same corner:

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That RC8 is sweet but I'd have to pic the red one.
COTA is a long ways to haul my bike down for a day. Worth it I'm sure.

Twistedracer.. we've got a track weekend coming up on July 1st/2nd! It is worth it in every way, man. Amazing track/facility!

Luckily it is 30min from my house..

MotoX183 said:

Twistedracer.. we've got a track weekend coming up on July 1st/2nd! It is worth it in every way, man. Amazing track/facility!

Luckily it is 30min from my house..

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Such a tease, one day. My niece lives in Austin.

Just getting caught up here on recent posts, but OMG!!!

Killer setup you got there Twisted!! Bike looks amazing, especially with that gear. I can't stop looking at this pic. wow!