Ducati 1299 Suspension and Handling Settings

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shakazulu12 said:
I don't think I read any comments that said springs/valving changes wouldn't be a good idea. I think the problem with the conversation is people picking bits and pieces out of the posts and not looking at the overall content of the message.

Springs/sag reccomendations are a good baseline. You tweak it from there based on actual performance. The higher up the skill ladder you are, the less you are going to look at sag IMHO.
Click to expand...

Nailed it.
 
shakazulu12 said:
Springs/sag reccomendations are a good baseline. You tweak it from there based on actual performance. The higher up the skill ladder you are, the less you are going to look at sag IMHO.
Click to expand...

Good summary - I think what is causing some debate is the "body weight doesn't matter" assertion, it does matter, especially in extreme cases. The 260 lb rider benching 500 needs heavier springs even if he's not quite as fast as a 150 lb Pedrosa midget rider :)
 
fzr100098 said:
Good summary - I think what is causing some debate is the "body weight doesn't matter" assertion, it does matter, especially in extreme cases. The 260 lb rider benching 500 needs heavier springs even if he's not quite as fast as a 150 lb Pedrosa midget rider :)
Click to expand...

Of course. That guy (260) would bottom out the stock springs everywhere if he rode at anything close to a respectable pace. Like I said, I never said spring rate wasn't important.

My "not important" comment was more directed towards Pedrosa. I would bet a paycheck Pedrosa is running springs that are more suited for that 260lbs rider than he is springs that are suited for his 120lbs.

If they were worried about his sag numbers and used springs to achieve the "proper sag" based upon his 120lb ass, he wouldn't be able to even finish the warmup lap without bottoming his bike out everywhere. THAT is what I meant by "bodyweight is irrelevant".
 
fzr100098 said:
Good summary - I think what is causing some debate is the "body weight doesn't matter" assertion, it does matter, especially in extreme cases. The 260 lb rider benching 500 needs heavier springs even if he's not quite as fast as a 150 lb Pedrosa midget rider :)
Click to expand...

Yeah, but nobody said that he doesn't in the first place. That was my whole point. I'm paraphrasing, but the statement was that you use whatever spring/valving combo that puts the suspension in it's ideal working range based upon the situation. The slower you are, the easier it is to do this with just sag. The faster you are, the more you are going to deviate from that as your source of valving/spring choices. Everyone has been going in circles saying the same thing it seems like.
 
Maybe this might be helpful...

Dave used to work on various AMA teams as their suspension tech..

He's also a multiple and current AFM class champion and he's rated by the AFM as in their top 10 best riders (he's #9), so not only does he know suspension theory, but he has the talent to put it into practice and it means he actually knows what he's talking about..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ikjw4IheeF4
 
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Yes, however in this video Dave's not telling you how he'd set up a bike for a top AMA racer. As mentioned previously, it's way more complicated for a top level rider, and they might run different spring rates for different tracks or track conditions (softer rates in the rain for example). Also, the bounce test for checking damping settings doesn't work any more with many of the newer style suspension parts, such as TTX shocks. Ohlins will tell you straight up to never bounce your bike to try to dial damping in with a TTX shock, you should set it to baseline and then tune based upon track performance. Same with NIX forks, bouncing them doesn't work due to the velocity of oil flow.
 
80shilling said:
Maybe this might be helpful...

Dave used to....
Click to expand...

How exactly was that supposed to be helpful?

Did you not see that post where I said Dave was on our crew our Endurance Team at the Grand Nationals last year? I know Dave and have worked with him personally, on several occasions.
 
jarelj said:
Yes, however in this video Dave's not telling you how he'd set up a bike for a top AMA racer. As mentioned previously, it's way more complicated for a top level rider, and they might run different spring rates for different tracks or track conditions (softer rates in the rain for example). Also, the bounce test for checking damping settings doesn't work any more with many of the newer style suspension parts, such as TTX shocks. Ohlins will tell you straight up to never bounce your bike to try to dial damping in with a TTX shock, you should set it to baseline and then tune based upon track performance. Same with NIX forks, bouncing them doesn't work due to the velocity of oil flow.
Click to expand...
Agreed, but it's a VERY good starting point for those of us that are club racers and similar.

My goal here, is to provide as much information that is SPECIFIC to our 1299's as we can all contribute. If you are an AMA racer, then you already have a suspension guru on staff, or you are using the manufacturer of your suspension's support team and it's taken care of for you.

I am lucky, I have Dave as a local resource and I can always invite him round to my place for a Chicken dinner and pick his brains.. He also shows up at every AFM race and every local trackday, so in Northern CA, we are just lucky that he's local to us. Not everyone has someone like Dave at hand and they have to try to set things up for themselves... I think this thread could tunr into a good start and a good resource if we can share knowledge and try to keep it focused on the 1299 base, S and R.
 
Chaotic said:
How exactly was that supposed to be helpful?

Did you not see that post where I said Dave was on our crew our Endurance Team at the Grand Nationals last year? I know Dave and have worked with him personally, on several occasions.
Click to expand...
NOt everyone knows Dave personally ... Maybe sharing his information with a wider audience could help a few people who buy 1299's and want to know how to set them up? Great, you're an expert and know everything that Dave is telling people in that video... 99.9% of the rest of the owners on this forum DON'T.

Do you agree, that a video like this could be very helpful to people that don't have expertise and don't have a crew at their disposal with a suspension expert and don't have a GOOD local suspension guy/shop?

You seem to be annoyed by the fact that thread even exists and that I am posting information gathered from known experts. I am no expert, but I know a bunch of them and my thought is to gather as much of that information as we can, to help the GENERAL forum. It's not aimed at AMA or similar level champions and elite expert riders like you. Is that OK with you, or are you going to continue to bitch and whine every time I post something?
 
80shilling said:
NOt everyone knows Dave personally ... Maybe sharing his information with a wider audience could help a few people who buy 1299's and want to know how to set them up? Great, you're an expert and know everything that Dave is telling people in that video... 99.9% of the rest of the owners on this forum DON'T.

Do you agree, that a video like this could be very helpful to people that don't have expertise and don't have a crew at their disposal with a suspension expert and don't have a GOOD local suspension guy/shop?

You seem to be annoyed by the fact that thread even exists and that I am posting information gathered from known experts. I am no expert, but I know a bunch of them and my thought is to gather as much of that information as we can, to help the GENERAL forum. It's not aimed at AMA or similar level champions and elite expert riders like you. Is that OK with you, or are you going to continue to bitch and whine every time I post something?
Click to expand...

Sure. Perhaps I took that post wrong. I took that post as if you were directing it towards me. As if you were saying "maybe this will be helpful..." as in you were trying to point out Dave's background and knowledge to me as a means of trying to somehow discredit some of the points I have been making.

For the record, I don't disagree with what Dave says or does. For somebody that has no idea where to begin with setup/spring rates, by all means do that stuff and get your spring rates sorted so the bike isn't way too stiff or soft in general.

My only point was that when it comes to performance riding, and TRUE setup for the individual, for the track, for the circumstances, for the tires, etc...bodyweight isn't a factor.
 
Regardless of circular arguments and opinions that all have points of validity, I personally appreciate the idea of centralized thread that addresses 1299s suspension set.

Hopefully we can swing back to discussing what settings have been used and the methodology to get to that point. Leave it up to the reader to trust whether or not each suggestion makes sense for them.

If you're looking for a black and white 'one method fits all', you're likely into the wrong sport/hobby/way of life/whatever.
 
Hi All
Track use
driver 190 lbs , rear susp : Flat
base settings
Sag Front 34
Sag Rear 26
Race Mode , manual settings .

Comp front 10
Reb front 12

Comp Rear 10
Reb rear 9

After several track day I noticed the rilsan on fork is very low, I've tried several settings trying to close down ( harden ) to 5 , it improved some, but still far from being good
I'm now checking with Ohlins for harder spring
I'll let you know when it's done
 
Desmove1299S said:
Hi All
Track use
driver 190 lbs , rear susp : Flat
base settings
Sag Front 34
Sag Rear 26
Race Mode , manual settings .

Comp front 10
Reb front 12

Comp Rear 10
Reb rear 9

After several track day I noticed the rilsan on fork is very low, I've tried several settings trying to close down ( harden ) to 5 , it improved some, but still far from being good
I'm now checking with Ohlins for harder spring
I'll let you know when it's done
Click to expand...
The rilsan? I'm not familiar with that term, can you explain?

Looks like we are very close on our chosen settings.

Cheers and thanks for the input.
 
I just had another conversation with Ohlins, USA and they are recommending sag figures of 38mm front and 28mm rear for the track, for the TTX36/NIX30 combination.. and 40mm front and 30mm rear for hard street riding.

They also recommend that if you can't get your sag figures correct, you are better off going with a slightly stiffer spring and using less preload, rather than a softer spring where you have to crank more preload into the spring to get the preferred sag.

I am going to see if I can get my sag figures to their specs and then see if I like it or not. I will be doing a ton of playing around with the suspension, just to see what the changes do to the way my bike feels.
 
The Dave Moss vid was helpful, thanks shilling. If anything the Base model Marzocchi fork spring rate is on the stiff side for the street (and I weigh 200#) but I prefer it that way - still playing with the damping so can't provide numbers yet.
 
80shilling said:
I just had another conversation with Ohlins, USA and they are recommending sag figures of 38mm front and 28mm rear for the track, for the TTX36/NIX30 combination.. and 40mm front and 30mm rear for hard street riding.

They also recommend that if you can't get your sag figures correct, you are better off going with a slightly stiffer spring and using less preload, rather than a softer spring where you have to crank more preload into the spring to get the preferred sag.

I am going to see if I can get my sag figures to their specs and then see if I like it or not. I will be doing a ton of playing around with the suspension, just to see what the changes do to the way my bike feels.
Click to expand...

I use rilsan ( polyamide ) straps around one of the tube, to figure out how dip does the fork plunge while braking. it should leave at least 0.9 inch ( 2 cm or more ) from the bottom end at max braking
And yes , the springs delivered with bike are avg rider weight calculated, around 75 to 85 kg ( you figure out the pounds...or stones ) so if you ride the bike hard or are heavier, than changing springs for harder ones is a good option
 
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Desmove1299S said:
I use rilsan ( polyamide ) straps around one of the tube, to figure out how dip does the fork plunge while braking. it should leave at least 0.9 inch ( 2 cm or more ) from the bottom end at max braking
And yes , the springs delivered with bike are avg rider weight calculated, around 75 to 85 kg ( you figure out the pounds...or stones ) so if you ride the bike hard or are heavier, than changing springs for harder ones is a good option
Click to expand...
Ah.. Thank you for clearing that up.. We call them Zip ties.. Cheers.
 
Desmove1299S said:
I use rilsan ( polyamide ) straps around one of the tube, to figure out how dip does the fork plunge while braking. it should leave at least 0.9 inch ( 2 cm or more ) from the bottom end at max braking
And yes , the springs delivered with bike are avg rider weight calculated, around 75 to 85 kg ( you figure out the pounds...or stones ) so if you ride the bike hard or are heavier, than changing springs for harder ones is a good option
Click to expand...

Keep in mind for people with the base 1299 . These forks bottom out with 33 mm left of fork tube left showing . So using a zip tie around the fork tube you should allow extra.
 
Was interesting watching the high-res slow-mo footage from MotoGP practice. You could clearly see at the moment the rear wheel was lifting, the fork still had almost 40mm of stanchion showing, and was clearly still working with the rear wheel in the air. I'm sure all of my forks are completely bottomed at that point.
 
80shilling said:
They also recommend that if you can't get your sag figures correct, you are better off going with a slightly stiffer spring and using less preload, rather than a softer spring where you have to crank more preload into the spring to get the preferred sag.
Click to expand...

Absolutely.

Once we get near 3/4 of the available preload adjustment, we will go up in Spring rate.
 

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