Ducati Corse Oil - Special Oil developed by Shell and Ducati Corse

ive been using motul forever and a day.... and ill stick with it.

Astral11 said:

Is the 15w-60 a JASO MA or MB?

A dry clutch would require the MB friction modifiers, correct?

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how you have worded that is wrong as a dry clutch machine doesn't need anything extra added because of the clutch not being bathed In oil.

A wet clutch machine can't have too slippy an oil or it will kill the clutch and make it slip so I would suggest any slippy oil would need to be modified so it could be used in a wet clutch thus negating its benefit!

Obviously it's dry. What's being debated is the friction modifiers added to dilute the clutch dust generated

Astral11 said:

Obviously it's dry. What's being debated is the friction modifiers added to dilute the clutch dust generated

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if you have any engine oil near your dry clutch with or without friction modifiers diluting the dust generated then you have a problem.... but you knew that...

Astral11 said:

Obviously it's dry. What's being debated is the friction modifiers added to dilute the clutch dust generated

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How is dust from a dry clutch contaminating the engine oil?

craig bush said:

How is dust from a dry clutch contaminating the engine oil?

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lots of oil in Texas...

andyb said:

lots of oil in Texas...

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Indeed. Some of which is contaminated by Ducati dry clutch dust.

Why make a dry clutch oil if it doesn't pertain to the performance of the dry clutch? In theory since we're not worrying about clutch slippage because of oil weights, because it's dry clutch, the concern is cooling mechanical linkages like the Desmo valves. So a dry clutch oil is actually moot, and any weight that respects the engine at high rpm is acceptable. Any debate there?

I'm in the process of a clutch rebuild so I'll provide pictures of my disassembly process and cheese cloth the removed oil, my bet would be clutch dust in there, in any amount is enough to warrant a "dry clutch oil" with friction modifiers.

I think we could use some info from Ducati on this but the MSDS isn't available, so I'll gladly make sense of the numbers since folks are hand to mouth on info and can't read or lookup a pdf for themselves

I don't have the service manual open, but the bolts that secure the clutch cover, also hold the dry clutch casing that seals against the engine. The bit of aluminum that you can see between the engine and the clutch case, is that clutch case I refer to, it runs circumferential to the clutch cover. I have had a leak from that casing, not being torqued against the engine frame. If the casing or seal package behind that is distorted or not torqued correctly, that is the leak path for the dry clutch dust to contaminate the oil.

For the sake of the brand, are you all V4S owners? I need to start a forum specifically for the R with a dry clutch if we consider all this empty banter

So we have the "dry clutch oil", made by Ducati. No one questions the dry clutch portion, with changes at 600 miles regardless. Someone please claim Ducati is wrong by that or explain their reasoning behind such a bold statement of a dry clutch oil, since folks seem to think that term doesn't apply

We have a wet clutch oil, that circulates said wet clutch oil, in with motor oil, so we're still "cleaning" a a wet clutch and using contaminated oil from the clutch that is made regardless if it's wet or dry. That's why you change the engine oil at intervals, correct?

So please tell me, why is there a "wet clutch" oil, aside from the obvious fact the clutch utilizes the oil weights while at rpm/pressure. These oils are almost a marketing gimmick for the uneducated and you pad pockets by not doing your research, but you get what you pay for/want when you do the research

Astral11 said:

I don't have the service manual open, but the bolts that secure the clutch cover, also hold the dry clutch casing that seals against the engine. The bit of aluminum that you can see between the engine and the clutch case, is that clutch case I refer to, it runs circumferential to the clutch cover. I have had a leak from that casing, not being torqued against the engine frame. If the casing or seal package behind that is distorted or not torqued correctly, that is the leak path for the dry clutch dust to contaminate the oil.

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Correct as I understand it - under normal operating conditions, dust from a dry clutch does not contaminate the engine oil.

The seal package for the V4R is the clutch casing (35) main journal oil seal (36) and casing seal (6), the bolts (33/34) are what seals the clutch housing, IMO that design could be improved with a cam & groove or some other locking feature. I will follow up with hardware inspections/photos once I'm into it. But the customers (us) are still left with not knowing the additives or features of the "dry clutch oil", along with Motuls claim of 2.5% torque increase.

Is it to control contamination or assist the engine at high rpm, without any effect to the dry clutch? I suppose Corse has the only answers to our question, but we all know the oil is specifically used for the engine, and not the dry clutch. I'm swaying my statement slightly there because I'm in agreement of the seal package working correctly, but we would all like to to know why this dry clutch oil is specific and gains 3.5hp at the crank, being the same weight as stock oil





With respect to Vyrus and a dry clutch with desmo valves - The Motul 300V 4T Factory Off Road 15W-60 is very appealing, and similar to the 300V 10W-60 LeMans, both which fall in spec/range of Shell 4T 15w-50, for a dry clutch . Endurance racing oil that is very similar to motorcycle oil. Both weights and oil characteristics could do the V4 engine well. That LeMans oil may just find itself going in as a test as those cars can operate at 9K* rpm for 24 hours. And before someone mentions, I know the R goes to 15-16.5k rpm, and I will tell you that is very narrow operating band even on track. The centrifugal force during lean is definitely something to respect and is a tool when needed, but I don't think there's a MotoGP or forum user that continuously rides at the top of that band unless throttle is pinned in 6th

For 2022 Ducati already slowed the oil pump and decreased the pump gear size to reduce parasitic drag. I think the “special” oil has less viscosity improvers such that the oil stays thinner to further reduce parasitic friction drag. Such would also require more frequent changes for oil life since the sheer forces will destroy the oil in short order. YMMV

When you are in a hole stop digging.. you may find oil.

The reason the oil is for a dry clutch bike is exactly that they can put extra slippy additives in because the oil doesn’t go near a clutch !!

The reason you can’t use it with a wet clutch is because the extra slippy additives will infect the friction plates and make them slip!

Astral11 said:

The seal package for the V4R is the clutch casing (35) main journal oil seal (36) and casing seal (6), the bolts (33/34) are what seals the clutch housing, IMO that design could be improved with a cam & groove or some other locking feature. I will follow up with hardware inspections/photos once I'm into it. But the customers (us) are still left with not knowing the additives or features of the "dry clutch oil", along with Motuls claim of 2.5% torque increase.

Is it to control contamination or assist the engine at high rpm, without any effect to the dry clutch? I suppose Corse has the only answers to our question, but we all know the oil is specifically used for the engine, and not the dry clutch. I'm swaying my statement slightly there because I'm in agreement of the seal package working correctly, but we would all like to to know why this dry clutch oil is specific and gains 3.5hp at the crank, being the same weight as stock oil

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With respect to Vyrus and a dry clutch with desmo valves - The Motul 300V 4T Factory Off Road 15W-60 is very appealing, and similar to the 300V 10W-60 LeMans, both which fall in spec/range of Shell 4T 15w-50, for a dry clutch . Endurance racing oil that is very similar to motorcycle oil. Both weights and oil characteristics could do the V4 engine well. That LeMans oil may just find itself going in as a test as those cars can operate at 9K* rpm for 24 hours. And before someone mentions, I know the R goes to 15-16.5k rpm, and I will tell you that is very narrow operating band even on track. The centrifugal force during lean is definitely something to respect and is a tool when needed, but I don't think there's a MotoGP or forum user that continuously rides at the top of that band unless throttle is pinned in 6th

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Are they still having issues with leaking seals on the 2023 R?, I know it was a fact on the 2019 R. Strange, I have heard there was upgrades done already 2019 on the seals.

JOS said:

Are they still having issues with leaking seals on the 2023 R?, I know it was a fact on the 2019 R. Strange, I have heard there was upgrades done already 2019 on the seals.

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No leaking so far….

Andy this forum is quadrupal redundant to your info. You repeated everything I said and as always add nothing of relevance to a conversation. You don't even own a R so your comments are pointless related to this clutch or oil, you use neither. I'll dig to China if needed to prove a point. We now have people with knowledge of the seal package needing to be upgraded. I think that's gold in the hole. Any debate there?

Thank you JOS and Sutki, that is some great on seal packages being upgraded over the past few years. I would suspect it would be an upgraded labyrinth seal.

The seal package/leak path was in question, due to the new oil being dry specific. The forum wasn't sure if/how the new oil helps to manage clutch dust blow by controlling the dust with friction modifiers, and where the extra 3.5hp comes from. A few S owners got caught up on the mention of the wet clutch and that somehow took topic

I think you forgot to type the "R" in bold...

I mean come on Andy... Do you even own an R?

Even though this thread and this oil are quite ridiculous they are not as ridiculous as the notion that this oil was developed with contingencies for an oil leak in mind.