Ducati Corse Oil - Special Oil developed by Shell and Ducati Corse

timwu12 said:

Even though this thread and this oil are quite ridiculous they are not as ridiculous as the notion that this oil was developed with contingencies for an oil leak in mind.

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RickD996 said:

You say that now, but wait until you have multiple oil leaks. Then the oil really starts paying for itself.

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VYRUS said:

Please accept this as help for the group to better understand the very complex oil specifications. For more detailed information, I would recommend the “Lubrizol” website.
- JASO MA & MB: Ducati wet clutch owners should only use oil with the JASO MA approval. MB is for scooters with centrifugal clutches. JASO MA can also be used in a dry clutch engine with no harm.
- Motorcycle specific oils are significantly different & better for motorcycle engines. Motorcycle oil is more complicated and more expensive than automotive oil. It’s not a gimmick to steal your money. Other than the JASO MA approval, there is no other official approval for motorcycle dry clutch engines. You’ll have to trust the oil manufacturer’s reputation and statements of approval for motorcycle engines. If the oil doesn’t say specifically that it’s intended for motorcycles, you should assume it does NOT have special additive packages for motorcycles. Motorcycle oil has “gear boosters” to protect the gears inside a motorcycle engine from pitting. Additives to prevent foaming in high RPM motorcycle engines are different from high RPM race car engines.
- Ester synthetic oil has numerous advantages for high performance motorcycle engines. Superior evaporation loss (NOACK Volatility) at high temperatures. HTHS (high temperature high shear) is typically double most “synthetic” oils. Straight cut gears inhigh performance motorcycle engines can rip car oil apart in no time. Ester is also used as an additive to soften oil seals and prevent leaks. Ester molecules are attracted to metal and don’t drain away when the engine is off. Ect ect
- The newest motorcycle oil standards are designed to meet emissions standards and protect the catalytic converter. If you don’t have a catalytic converter, older motorcycle oil standards are superior. Most of the common motorcycle oils are a blend of API Group 4 (PAO) and Easter. They’re decent oils, but not what I think most Ducati owners on this forum are looking for. Europe has more Ester synthetic oil choices. America is limited to Red Line (Power Sport) or Motul 300V (motorcycle oil). If you’re still using the catalytic converter, verify the oil is compatible.
- Real racing oil is typically lower viscosity for less resistance inside the engine. That’s where the new Ducati Race oil gets the extra power. Lower viscosity also has higher wear. Real race engines are overhauled frequently.
- Oil leaks typically come from a warped surface due to extreme heat or poor assembly. Chemical “stop leaks” won’t work. Split or nicked O-rings are another common leak. Normally poor assembly. Gaskets and sealants normally fail from heat cycles over time. Sealants come in a wide range of qualities. You get what you pay for. Pay extra for the highest quality high temperature, and chemical resistance. You won’t find these in any Parts Store. If you’re searching for an oil leak, the old school leak tracer spray still works great. It sprays on like spray powder.

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Skydivr said:

I think I prefer 300 V. It is a proven oil. What I wonder about is viscosity in this engine and what range is acceptable?

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VYRUS said:

Motul 300V “Factory Line - Road Racing” is for street bikes. Motul 300V “Factory Line - Off Road” are both acceptable. The off road offers a few different viscosities I prefer. The only other difference will be clutch feel, hot or cold. Both oils are excellent in Ducati wet clutch. Try both and see which you like in your bike with the way you ride. If you have a dry clutch, there is zero difference between these two oils. Pick the viscosity you prefer. I prefer 15w/60 off road for Northern California Summer rides. There is no right or wrong. Just don’t confuse Motul 300V for automotive engines with the motorcycle oil.

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Skydivr said:

I’ve been running 300 V in my S 1000 RR for years. I have a 20 liter jug of 10W40 and I am just trying to find out for viscosity is acceptable in this engine

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VYRUS said:

Allow me to delve a little bit deeper into the weeds. If you frequently change this or any other decent oil with the JASO MA approval, you’re not going to harm the engine. The problem is when you get to the extremes. “Frequently” in high performance motorcycle terms means every 4 or 5 rides. As members of this group know all too well, oil is WAY cheaper than repairs. I also want to qualify the statement with JASO MA. JASO MA is for sure a motorcycle oil that can be universally used in wet or dry clutch engines.
Just because the oil is Motul 300V, doesn’t mean it has the JASO MA rating. If your 300V doesn’t have the JASO MA, I would use it in your car.
Now we get to viscosity. Oil companies and engine manufacturers have confused this for so long that nobody bothers with actual explaining it. I have more in common with this group of enthusiasts. I would never waste my breath with other groups.
With your particular 10W/40, the 10W is the base viscosity of the oil when cold. In this case, 10 is also the viscosity Petroleum Engineers are TRYING to maintain throughout the temperature range the oil was intended to operate within. As you’ve probably noticed, oil doesn’t get thicker when it gets hot. The myth that 10W/40 goes from a10 weight viscosity to a thicker 40 weight viscosity as it heats up, is simply not true. So what does 40 actually represent? This is where the fuzzy hard to explain part comes from.
Think of 40 as representing the upper ambient and operating temperature range. Everything else being equal, most engines run cooler when the ambient temperature is 60F, and exponentially hotter as the temperature increases. In other words, the engine’s operating temperature will increase substantially higher when the ambient temperature increases from 90F to 100F, then when the ambient temperature increased from 60F to 70F.
Here’s another way of looking at these viscosity numbers. What’s the difference between 10W/30, 10W/40, 10W/50, and 10W/60? All of them have the same base viscosity. W is not Winter. W is is base viscosity at room temperature, 72F. At 0F, 10 weight oil is like jello. At 212F it’s like water. Who’s Winter are we talking about? Winter at Dead Horse Alaska, or Winter in Honolulu? No matter which of these 10W oils you have, the viscosity will be 10 in a cold engine at 72F. We intuitively know the oil does not get thicker when the engine gets hot. We’ve all seen it with our own 2 eyes. So what’s the difference between 30, 40, 50, and 60? (I know you Blokes down under have 70.) Ideally, the oil should maintain 10 viscosity from cold to hot. The second number in a 10W/40 oil, represents the theoretical highest ambient / operating temperature the oil can maintain the base viscosity of 10. In other words, 10W/30 will maintain the base viscosity of 10 up to a ambient operating temperature of about 60F. 10W/40 maintains 10 in a fully warmed up engine and approximately 70F ambient temperature . In your case, 10W/40 would typically be a good viscosity for England, where it rarely gets to 90F or 100F. 10W/50 maintains 10 up to approximately 80F. 10W/60 maintains 10 up to 90F. If you’re regularly riding in ambient temperatures above 90F, you should consider 15W/50 or 15W/60. High ambient temperatures means the engine will also be operating at significantly higher temperatures. High ambient temperatures mean the base viscosity should also be higher. Whenever internal engine parts with tight tolerances get real hot, the oil viscosity needs enough film strength to keep these parts from micro welding. Film strength is measured as the HTHS (high temperature high shear). HTHS (film strength) increases with the base viscosity. 20 weight oil has a higher HTHS than 10 weight oil.
If you have a high performance engine that tends to run high oil temperatures (250F and above), you should use a 20W/60. (Note: Oil temperature and engine temperature are not the same thing. Oil temperature is more important. The typical API Group 3 synthetic oil begins to oxidize at about 260F. Group 4 can handle 290F. Group 5 Ester synthetic can handle 330F. At these temperatures high base viscosity is extremely important.)
To summarize; I could never see the point of 10W/40 oil. Why take the risk when 10W/40 and 10W/60 300V cost the same. 10W/60 will hold up better it the day gets hot. If you always ride where the ambient temperature is 80F to 100F, the base viscosity of 15W60 would be the best. You have a high performance hot engine. If you ride when ambient temperatures are above 100F, I would use 20W/60. Your 10W/40 would be adequate if you ride with ambient temperatures between 35F and 60F. Not the most pleasant, but that’s where engines run the best.
I’ve only hit the high points. I know the centistokes on Material Data Sheets contract what I just said. Don’t get me started on that.
There’s nothing like a cool evening ripping the Pacific Coast Highway south of Big Sur. Epic!

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VYRUS said:

Allow me to delve a little bit deeper into the weeds. If you frequently change this or any other decent oil with the JASO MA approval, you’re not going to harm the engine. The problem is when you get to the extremes. “Frequently” in high performance motorcycle terms means every 4 or 5 rides. As members of this group know all too well, oil is WAY cheaper than repairs. I also want to qualify the statement with JASO MA. JASO MA is for sure a motorcycle oil that can be universally used in wet or dry clutch engines.
Just because the oil is Motul 300V, doesn’t mean it has the JASO MA rating. If your 300V doesn’t have the JASO MA, I would use it in your car.
Now we get to viscosity. Oil companies and engine manufacturers have confused this for so long that nobody bothers with actual explaining it. I have more in common with this group of enthusiasts. I would never waste my breath with other groups.
With your particular 10W/40, the 10W is the base viscosity of the oil when cold. In this case, 10 is also the viscosity Petroleum Engineers are TRYING to maintain throughout the temperature range the oil was intended to operate within. As you’ve probably noticed, oil doesn’t get thicker when it gets hot. The myth that 10W/40 goes from a10 weight viscosity to a thicker 40 weight viscosity as it heats up, is simply not true. So what does 40 actually represent? This is where the fuzzy hard to explain part comes from.
Think of 40 as representing the upper ambient and operating temperature range. Everything else being equal, most engines run cooler when the ambient temperature is 60F, and exponentially hotter as the temperature increases. In other words, the engine’s operating temperature will increase substantially higher when the ambient temperature increases from 90F to 100F, then when the ambient temperature increased from 60F to 70F.
Here’s another way of looking at these viscosity numbers. What’s the difference between 10W/30, 10W/40, 10W/50, and 10W/60? All of them have the same base viscosity. W is not Winter. W is is base viscosity at room temperature, 72F. At 0F, 10 weight oil is like jello. At 212F it’s like water. Who’s Winter are we talking about? Winter at Dead Horse Alaska, or Winter in Honolulu? No matter which of these 10W oils you have, the viscosity will be 10 in a cold engine at 72F. We intuitively know the oil does not get thicker when the engine gets hot. We’ve all seen it with our own 2 eyes. So what’s the difference between 30, 40, 50, and 60? (I know you Blokes down under have 70.) Ideally, the oil should maintain 10 viscosity from cold to hot. The second number in a 10W/40 oil, represents the theoretical highest ambient / operating temperature the oil can maintain the base viscosity of 10. In other words, 10W/30 will maintain the base viscosity of 10 up to a ambient operating temperature of about 60F. 10W/40 maintains 10 in a fully warmed up engine and approximately 70F ambient temperature . In your case, 10W/40 would typically be a good viscosity for England, where it rarely gets to 90F or 100F. 10W/50 maintains 10 up to approximately 80F. 10W/60 maintains 10 up to 90F. If you’re regularly riding in ambient temperatures above 90F, you should consider 15W/50 or 15W/60. High ambient temperatures means the engine will also be operating at significantly higher temperatures. High ambient temperatures mean the base viscosity should also be higher. Whenever internal engine parts with tight tolerances get real hot, the oil viscosity needs enough film strength to keep these parts from micro welding. Film strength is measured as the HTHS (high temperature high shear). HTHS (film strength) increases with the base viscosity. 20 weight oil has a higher HTHS than 10 weight oil.
If you have a high performance engine that tends to run high oil temperatures (250F and above), you should use a 20W/60. (Note: Oil temperature and engine temperature are not the same thing. Oil temperature is more important. The typical API Group 3 synthetic oil begins to oxidize at about 260F. Group 4 can handle 290F. Group 5 Ester synthetic can handle 330F. At these temperatures high base viscosity is extremely important.)
To summarize; I could never see the point of 10W/40 oil. Why take the risk when 10W/40 and 10W/60 300V cost the same. 10W/60 will hold up better it the day gets hot. If you always ride where the ambient temperature is 80F to 100F, the base viscosity of 15W60 would be the best. You have a high performance hot engine. If you ride when ambient temperatures are above 100F, I would use 20W/60. Your 10W/40 would be adequate if you ride with ambient temperatures between 35F and 60F. Not the most pleasant, but that’s where engines run the best.
I’ve only hit the high points. I know the centistokes on Material Data Sheets contract what I just said. Don’t get me started on that.
There’s nothing like a cool evening ripping the Pacific Coast Highway south of Big Sur. Epic!

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Alkhater said:

This is correct.

Oil ratings xW/x are meant to indicate the ambient temperature operating window of the oil.

So 300V 10W/40 is suitable at 10-40 degrees celsius ambient, 300V 15W/50 is suitable at 15-50 degrees celsius ambient.

My guess is that it's a rating system targeted towards Joe Mechanic to simplify oil selection during changes.

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craig bush said:

My understanding is that’s accurate for the second number (high temp viscosity rating), but not the first (low temp rating) as explained here:

https://www.energy.gov/energysaver/motor-oil-grades-and-classifications-explained#:~:text=Multi%2Dviscosity%20motor%20oils%20are,engine%20oil's%20%22winter%22%20grade.

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Alkhater said:

That states basically the same thing albeit the W rating does not represent degrees Celsius. Principle is the same though.

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craig bush said:

My understanding is that’s accurate for the second number (high temp viscosity rating), but not the first (low temp rating) as explained here:

https://www.energy.gov/energysaver/motor-oil-grades-and-classifications-explained#:~:text=Multi%2Dviscosity%20motor%20oils%20are,engine%20oil's%20%22winter%22%20grade.

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SuperDomestique said:

I ride into work on my V4 and some early mornings the temp is about 45-50°F (7-10°C). Bike is garage stored and it’s probably about 60°F (15°C). I let it warm up a few mins while getting gear on and usually has 2 bars on the water temp gauge as I set off. As I get on the highway, water temp then decreases to 1 bar and as I wind my way through surface streets that progressively increases until the fans kick in at around 3 bars.

Would it be worth putting 10W-40 during the cooler months? Hope I’m not rogering my engine with these heavier weight oil

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