Honda CBR1000RR-R SP 2024 vs V4R 2023

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Steven31371 said:
It is using the Spool Valve stuff…it’s the mechanicals that allow the EC3 software to work properly. Without the spool valve the carts can’t react quick enough to work properly with the DVO and EC3. If it has Ohlins EC3.0 it has Spools Valves.
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Good to know, I just had not seen it stated anywhere in Ducati’s blurb (and you’d think it’s a cool-sounding thing to include).

Looking at the tech spec, they have exactly the same model designation for the forks, so I guess you’re right and it makes sense that they would have the same tech.
 
panibadboy said:
If I make parallels with BMW motec - no. Pro firmware version gives you per sector TC and EBC settings for starters that standard doesn't have. I won't be surprised if there are multiple versions of HRC kit too.

V4S Evo electronics easily gives you 1.35 at Misano


Starting from the second spot on the grid after securing a front-row position in the qualifying held on Day 1 of the event, Bagnaia immediately took the lead and maintained it until the chequered flag. The Ducati Lenovo Team rider, who also set the fastest lap of the race with a time of 1:35.431, kept a consistent pace throughout the 10-lap race, crossing the finish line alone with more than a second advantage over the rest of the field


Just for reference, a mate on HRC Honda kit is 1.36+
View attachment 57261


Not scientific for sure.

But one would expect more difference for 5k + ECU and firmware init?
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You’re referencing a 23 and earlier SC82 that is considerably different from the 24. Also your results table shows a BMW at the top doing 1m36s and your “mate” on the Honda did a 1m38s fastest lap.

Also comparing GP riders to CIV is apples and oranges. There’s a reason GP riders are in GP;they’re the best of the best. Aliens. CIV is for those that couldn’t cut any other higher series like Moto2, WSBK, WSS, BSB, even MA. It’s like a step above high-level club racing. Sure CIV riders are fast to you and me but these riders would also consider GP riders fast. Just look at how Luca Salvadori enjoyed and was amazed riding with GP riders at WDW and getting dropped by them
 
panibadboy said:
Standard stuff in Bemeer or Honda is ...., and you force to pay 5k+ to get to the level of Evo Ducati. Sure HRC has many more tunning options but thats just cherry on top
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BMW and Honda electronics are ....? 🫣 You’ve got to stop holding back - just say what you think! 🤣

@Steven31371 Do you happen to know if the HRC kit introduces different algorithms for wheelie, traction, etc, or is is the same as the stock algorithms but greater ability to customise? From what I have read it seems to indicate that it’s a bit different, so maybe @panibadboy is correct about it simply bringing the Honda electronics up to the level of the stock Ducati stuff.
 
spooky said:
Good to know, I just had not seen it stated anywhere in Ducati’s blurb (and you’d think it’s a cool-sounding thing to include).

Looking at the tech spec, they have exactly the same model designation for the forks, so I guess you’re right and it makes sense that they would have the same tech.
Click to expand...

Mention of spool valve is in the Austrian marketing material

Ducati — Panigale V4 7G

Die neue Panigale V4 repräsentiert die siebte Generation in der gloreichen Geschichte der Ducati-Superbikes: eine perfekte Synthese aus Design und Technologie.
www.ducati.at www.ducati.at

This was also figured out 3 pages ago
 
spooky said:
Good to know, I just had not seen it stated anywhere in Ducati’s blurb (and you’d think it’s a cool-sounding thing to include).

Looking at the tech spec, they have exactly the same model designation for the forks, so I guess you’re right and it makes sense that they would have the same tech.
Click to expand...

I had an interesting conversation with the sales rep I work with at Ducati Newport Beach. He seems to think that the configurator only allowing you to buy the DVAC Pro software with the undertail exhaust is a glitch of the app.

I don’t think it is as the DTC, DWC, and DSC algorithms would have to be tuned to the power levels of the bike. I also asked if I bought a similar aftermarket exhaust if Ducati would sell me the DVAC pro, or if they would only sell the DVAC Pro tied to the in-house sale of the under tail.

He had to run that up the food chain.

I’ll let you guys know when I find out.

Although Karl could probably find out for us.

Another thing I want to know, is that the site says the race cans come with their own track tune, but is very vague about exactly what you get with that… for example DVAC Pro gives you the ability to calibrate a 125 front tire without messing up the writer aid stuff, I need to know if the software that does the same thing
 
spooky said:
BMW and Honda electronics are ....? 🫣 You’ve got to stop holding back - just say what you think! 🤣

@Steven31371 Do you happen to know if the HRC kit introduces different algorithms for wheelie, traction, etc, or is is the same as the stock algorithms but greater ability to customise? From what I have read it seems to indicate that it’s a bit different, so maybe @panibadboy is correct about it simply bringing the Honda electronics up to the level of the stock Ducati stuff.
Click to expand...

This is what HRC kit settings adjustment looks like. There’s also a manual that goes with it that explains what all the numbers and graphs mean

 
The 2025 baseline has been “substantially upgraded” AND has more adjustability. I took that to me what it sounds like. Of note in the limited dry lapse that the reviewers got to do on the 2025 Honda, several of them said the electronics no longer interfered with their riding, including the ABS. One said the electronics we’re actually helpful at this point.
 
SuperDomestique said:
This is what HRC kit settings adjustment looks like. There’s also a manual that goes with it that explains what all the numbers and graphs mean

Click to expand...


That’s from 2022. The newest iteration of the software is supposed to be more refined. Meaning it has more adjustment capability but is also more intuitive for a none tech to use.
 
Steven31371 said:
I had an interesting conversation with the sales rep I work with at Ducati Newport Beach. He seems to think that the configurator only allowing you to buy the DVAC Pro software with the undertail exhaust is a glitch of the app.

I don’t think it is as the DTC, DWC, and DSC algorithms would have to be tuned to the power levels of the bike. I also asked if I bought a similar aftermarket exhaust if Ducati would sell me the DVAC pro, or if they would only sell the DVAC Pro tied to the in-house sale of the under tail.

He had to run that up the food chain.

I’ll let you guys know when I find out.

Although Karl could probably find out for us.

Another thing I want to know, is that the site says the race cans come with their own track tune, but is very vague about exactly what you get with that… for example DVAC Pro gives you the ability to calibrate a 125 front tire without messing up the writer aid stuff, I need to know if the software that does the same thing
Click to expand...

Someone mentioned that they had it installed with a stock exhaust. 🤷‍♂️
 
SuperDomestique said:
You’re referencing a 23 and earlier SC82 that is considerably different from the 24. Also your results table shows a BMW at the top doing 1m36s and your “mate” on the Honda did a 1m38s fastest lap.

Also comparing GP riders to CIV is apples and oranges. There’s a reason GP riders are in GP;they’re the best of the best. Aliens. CIV is for those that couldn’t cut any other higher series like Moto2, WSBK, WSS, BSB, even MA. It’s like a step above high-level club racing. Sure CIV riders are fast to you and me but these riders would also consider GP riders fast. Just look at how Luca Salvadori enjoyed and was amazed riding with GP riders at WDW and getting dropped by them
Click to expand...

I said it's not scientific.

But I expect to see bigger difference between a MotoGP rider on almost stock electronics vs. CIV rider on a near WSBK bike, say solid 5 seconds.
 
Steven31371 said:
The 2025 baseline has been “substantially upgraded” AND has more adjustability. I took that to me what it sounds like. Of note in the limited dry lapse that the reviewers got to do on the 2025 Honda, several of them said the electronics no longer interfered with their riding, including the ABS. One said the electronics we’re actually helpful at this point.
Click to expand...

So, probably not ..... 🤣

It’s a shame the reviewers had such limited time on the bike but they all seemed suitably impressed.
 
Steven31371 said:
The 2025 baseline has been “substantially upgraded” AND has more adjustability. I took that to me what it sounds like. Of note in the limited dry lapse that the reviewers got to do on the 2025 Honda, several of them said the electronics no longer interfered with their riding, including the ABS. One said the electronics we’re actually helpful at this point.
Click to expand...

That would indicate a significant improvement.

Can’t wait for the Superbike shootout. I’m going to predict that the BMW is fastest but lacks character and the Honda and Ducati run similar times but the Ducati has character and is the one they’d want (although perhaps less character than previous models).
 
spooky said:
That would indicate a significant improvement.

Can’t wait for the Superbike shootout. I’m going to predict that the BMW is fastest but lacks character and the Honda and Ducati run similar times but the Ducati has character and is the one they’d want (although perhaps less character than previous models).
Click to expand...

I think it’s going to depend on who’s riding the bike in the test. If it’s a fast rider I think the HONDA will set the fastest lap times. If it’s a mediocre to good rider I think the Ducati will be fastest, because it’s probably the easiest to ride fast.

Also I think as long as Ducati has that engine it will have ‘character’ but I think they’ve taken a lot of the character out of it with the new iteration, I keep hearing phrases like ‘it’s more Germanic’ and it’s a bit ‘video-games’. All while saying it’s the easiest bike to ride fast they’ve ever ridden. Generally speaking, easy to ride fast is not associated with ‘character’ lol

In one of the comparison tests posted here in a previous iteration they said the Honda had the most character and best chassis, but its gearing and ABS tanked it, both things fixed on the 2025 bike.

Interestingly I saw a comparison test between the BMW and Ducati last year where the BMW ran faster lap times with a fast rider on it, but they said that Ducati and BMW had switched places, and the BMW was the more raw and savage bike to ride while the Ducati had seemed to become more tame, and that was last year before the newest even more tame iteration.

I just spent 5 hours at RoadracerX’s shop while he tuned the suspension for the guy I just sold the Foggy V4 too. He’s got me convinced that the Fireblade SP is the better bike. He likes a lot of different kinds of bike for track and you can rarely pin him down on ‘which bike is better’ he usually responds with “that depends”.

But he was adamant about me getting the KTM RC 8C, and is equally adamant about me getting the new Fireblade SP…which he has.

He didn’t steer me wrong with the KTM. So I’m trusting him on the Fireblade SP. The guy knows the pointy end of all these bikes.

And so, to commit myself I bought a set of BST CF wheels for the Fireblade SP tonight…so I’m in it now 😂😂😂
 
Last edited:
Steven31371 said:
Interestingly I saw a comparison test between the BMW and Ducati last year where the BMW ran faster lap times with a fast rider on it, but they said that Ducati and BMW had switched places, and the BMW was the more raw and savage bike to ride while the Ducati had seemed to become more tame, and that was last year before the newest even more tame iteration.
Click to expand...

That’s the MCN test I reposted. My interpretation of that would be that the BMW has more “potential” or overhead than the V4. The V4 can be ridden easily at 8/10ths but anything over doesn’t make it faster. The BMW’s 8/10s isn’t as easy to ride but if you really push you can extract more out of the bike and do better lap times.

IMG_0007.png
 

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