Horsepowers in the papers

To all lucky owners: Whats in your papers? How many horsepowers? Ok I don't how this is treated in other countrys but in Germany horsepowers have to be in the papers.

German owners complain that it says 135 kw. That means 183 hp. Thats less than the 195 on the official ducati webside.

Any idea?

Does it really matter? Something to boast about while sipping a latte?

FrostyFire said:

Does it really matter? Something to boast about while sipping a latte?

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.... yeah !!!

FrostyFire said:

Does it really matter? Something to boast about while sipping a latte?

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Does it matter when a girl looks like a cupsize C and two hours later you find out its a cupsize A.

For bragging during the latte I still could use the numbers on the webside. But for the acceleration I would like to have all the power I have payed for.

in the instruction book it says 195 and the vehicle registration certificate 135kw! strange! it is sealed or expect them suddenly wheeled horses

183 hp is that at the wheel not the crank

cheeseyduc said:

183 hp is that at the wheel not the crank

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Exactly. I can't believe people are asking such stupid questions.

Sigh...who cares what it is. HP doesnt define a bike unless you are riding a BMW. 195 or 183 or 176 or whatever, is on your little piece of paper is still more than you will likely ever use if you are concerned about "stock" HP figures.

Also advertised HP is always at the crank, it sounds better in the sound bites and magazine ads. 183 HP is probably being a little optimistic even. On top of that HP figures vary wildly between dyno types, and even two dyno's from the same manufacturer. Hell your HP can vary depending on the weather of the day. The other thing is that while some dyno's can kinda simulate ram air, none can do it like the real thing.

HP is a baseline that you use to tune an engine and really nothing more...sure it represents motive force but for most people riding on the street you couldnt tell difference between 195 and 183 hp unless it changed the power curve itself. The thing that affects most riding around town and that rush you get when accelerating is torque not hp.

I dont know why I get worked up over this but its annoying to me, especially since i have a buddy who rides a BMW and thinks that I'm trading up from a 170 RWHP 09 CBR1000RR to the Pani because of the HP, when I'm actually buying the 1199 because I just want an Italian Superbike!

Besides, 200 HP will be easy to hit on this bike

The Gerd said:

Besides, 200 HP will be easy to hit on this bike

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Just put a Termi line on it and you're done.

The Termi's might get you to 200+ HP at the crank, but that doesnt translate to 200HP to the wheel, I never take crank HP to consideration, its an advertising gimmick. Once i get my bike I'll get it dyno'd at the shop that i always get my bikes tuned at to get a nice baseline idea. Then I'll start doing research on whats out there, whats gonna be available, and other "tricks" people find along the way.

Termi's are nice but, a full SS system that costs $3500 and "claims" up to 5% increase in power is not my idea of ideal. That $3500 can buy a set of BST's which will technically be a better buy as they really change how bikes handle.

I guess until i see an actual dyno chart of the difference between stock pipes and the termi full system, so i can see where the power gains are (top end power gains aren't all that exciting for me, I prefer those gains to be made in the middle of the rpm range where you spend most of your time on the street and tracks). If it shows considerable gains across the board then I will consider it. Til then I am a skeptic, I don't believe in blind faith just because Ducati sells them with their bikes.

In the mean time I'm gonna paint those ugly ass stock cans with high temp black paint just so I dont notice them so much.

186 at the wheel as per dyno videos so far.

FrostyFire said:

186 at the wheel as per dyno videos so far.

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The test run by Motociclisma resulted in:

183 at the Crank
166 at the rear wheel

Ducati 1199 Panigale al banco: anteprima mondiale (video) - Motociclismo

As this bike was also 1.3 secs slower than the BMW around Misano, could be a weak bike..

DRSapp said:

The test run by Motociclisma resulted in:

183 at the Crank
166 at the rear wheel

Ducati 1199 Panigale al banco: anteprima mondiale (video) - Motociclismo

As this bike was also 1.3 secs slower than the BMW around Misano, could be a weak bike..

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183, 186, not a big diff there, but another result showed 186. Point is that's at the wheel which is very good.

DRSapp said:

The test run by Motociclisma resulted in:

183 at the Crank
166 at the rear wheel

Ducati 1199 Panigale al banco: anteprima mondiale (video) - Motociclismo

As this bike was also 1.3 secs slower than the BMW around Misano, could be a weak bike..

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How can it be a weak bike when Troy Bayliss said it was way better than his race bike and still pulling hard at 300km/hr.
I believe I also read that Carlos also wished he had the Pani this year.

To alot of us meer mortals, I am sure it will have plenty left over for us to play with

I must confess I have been waiting for everyone to realize what the power band of the Panigale really is. I write this because I spent a lot time and effort deciding which Panigale I should buy. It turns out I bought a 1098R instead.

Why?

Horsepower is a unit of work and therefore cannot be measured on a wheeled vehicle therefore it is derived from Torque which is a measure of the rotational force.

In other words, Horsepower = (Torque * RPM) / 5250

The reason the Panigale has a higher HP rating is because the short stroke pistons can operate at higher RPMs. However, by shortening the stroke the engines produces less Torque at low and medium RPMs and only comes on near redline.

As many know first hand, Termignoni exhausts allow higher RPMs than stock which causes the HP rating to be raised.

In sum, Torque is King and HP is only a useful number if you ride your bike at redline ie on the track. For those of us riding the twisties at redline is just dangerous!

When you look closely at the power band you will realize the Panigale only is strong above 8250rpms. That is why the press has reviewed the ride as 848 down low and a 1098R/1198R at high RPMs.

What the designers have created is a bike for the Press for bragging rights on HP while giving up the classic Ducati riding experience of endless Torque.

It is shame, because overall the Panigale is beautiful, the electronics are awesome and forever I will be wishing my 1098R had TFT dash.

Tricolore said:

...What the designers have created is a bike for the Press for bragging rights on HP while giving up the classic Ducati riding experience of endless Torque.

It is shame, because overall the Panigale is beautiful, the electronics are awesome and forever I will be wishing my 1098R had TFT dash.

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1098R looks great. I'm hope you have a great time owning it.

On the subject of HP and Torque.
HP and torgue are both measurements of power. Torgue is static 'twisting' force usually in ft-lbs in the states or Newton Meters elsewhere as the units of measure. Which is force times distance.
HP is force times distance divided by time. Measured in ft-lbs/mim (NM/sec). Same as above but incorporates time. I'm sure I like the acceleration to be as fast as possible.
Both HP and torgue are important, and power is power, a lot of it is helpful, whether it be torque at lower RPM's or HP and higher revs.

Most important thing as far as I know is huge area of high power. Much better than a peaky high power motor. From what I see 1199 is that it has a lot of power, but most of that power is 8K-11K. Wide enough band for racing and very fast riding, but not necessarily best for all around street use.

But you can only utilize so much power, and if the Ducati has enough power down low, then a bigger top end rush may not be so bad.

Until I ride it I won't know if Ducati went to far?

Chris

DRSapp said:

The test run by Motociclisma resulted in:

183 at the Crank
166 at the rear wheel

Ducati 1199 Panigale al banco: anteprima mondiale (video) - Motociclismo

As this bike was also 1.3 secs slower than the BMW around Misano, could be a weak bike..

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"Ducati 1199 Panigale sul banco del Centro Prove e Servizi Edisport: 185,6 CV/10.400 giri all'albero, 169,3 CV/10.400 alla ruota rilevati "

I can't translate. Does that say 185.6 HP @ 10,400 RPM and 169.3 HP @ 10, 400 RPM at the wheel (RWHP)???

Chris

FrostyFire said:

183, 186, not a big diff there, but another result showed 186. Point is that's at the wheel which is very good.

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183 was corrected to be the crank HP, not rear wheel. Rear wheel was noted as 166..

However, it is all relative. Figures will differ form dyno to dyno depending on a lot of factors. Would like to see what figures the BMW would put down back to back on the same dyno, as a base reference.

Wallaroo said:

How can it be a weak bike when Troy Bayliss said it was way better than his race bike and still pulling hard at 300km/hr.
I believe I also read that Carlos also wished he had the Pani this year.

To alot of us meer mortals, I am sure it will have plenty left over for us to play with

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You missed the point. Not that the Panigale is weak, but that maybe this particular bike used was a weaker example - not run in properly, a flaw during build or just one of the few that fall on the outer edges of the bell curve for the standard Deviation for the stock setup.

turnone said:

"Ducati 1199 Panigale sul banco del Centro Prove e Servizi Edisport: 185,6 CV/10.400 giri all'albero, 169,3 CV/10.400 alla ruota rilevati "

I can't translate. Does that say 185.6 HP @ 10,400 RPM and 169.3 HP @ 10, 400 RPM at the wheel (RWHP)???

Chris

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Nearly: 1cv = ~ 0.986 HP

CV * 0.986 = HP