How many will buy a 1299 twin instead of new V4?

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jjsC6 said:
You could have waited three more years and saved even more money. Or you could have bought it three years earlier and gotten three more years of riding the bike. But yes, I get your point. ;)
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Nah I think I bought just at the right time got a ok price on the R1 plus selling all the spares separate, the longer I wait the more ks on a panigale.

And I would never buy a new vehicle lose too much in depreciation.
 
jpanigale said:
Captain Greg a waste of time? A tea-bagging cry baby with loads of useful information and insight. Maybe he can assist us in proper auto-rotation of my EC120:eek::cool::(
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EC120 horrible little underpowered thing....I'm not sure you ride a 1299 or could it be a Vespa Besides I prefer the Italian machines like the 109's and then the new baby the 189...... they don't leak ... all, also made in Italy, go work that one out.
More interesting is why you are entitled to fly a EC or any other Heli if you can't master the most basic flight manouver?

Now I'm a fukin cry baby because I'm concerned about a bike that leaks coolant, and the dealer is saying it's normal?
Strange lot you ducatisti types.....have you ever had this coolant drip on the rear wheel during a nice fast corner?

O ja I keep forgetting for you lot it's about posing at the local YMCA in leather :)
 
Halo2 said:
Nah I think I bought just at the right time got a ok price on the R1 plus selling all the spares separate, the longer I wait the more ks on a panigale.

And I would never buy a new vehicle lose too much in depreciation.
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Hang on a moment....is this god concerned with depreciation:eek:...in contrast I would never buy a used vehicle :D it's clear we are polar opposites ;)
 
Captain Greg said:
EC120 horrible little underpowered thing....I'm not sure you ride a 1299 or could it be a Vespa Besides I prefer the Italian machines like the 109's and then the new baby the 189...... they don't leak ... all, also made in Italy, go work that one out.
More interesting is why you are entitled to fly a EC or any other Heli if you can't master the most basic flight manouver?

Now I'm a fukin cry baby because I'm concerned about a bike that leaks coolant, and the dealer is saying it's normal?
Strange lot you ducatisti types.....have you ever had this coolant drip on the rear wheel during a nice fast corner?

O ja I keep forgetting for you lot it's about posing at the local YMCA in leather :)
Click to expand...
I beg to differ. I fly the AW189 and it leaks like a seive when it's raining. No different to any other helicopter.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk
 
Time for Kaptain Greg to get a UJM. Obviously he's butt sore with the whole Italian thing. Either suck it up and stop posting about the leaks or move on already Sheila. Maybe a nice Ninja 300 to overwhelm you. Looks like you got yourself a leaker, not your bike though:p;):D
 
I'm waiting two years, if I get one at all. Once you've adjusted to the 1299, it's hard to go back to 4 cylinders. Hell, there's even significant difference between the 1199 and 1299 in terms of how they ride; the torque of the 1299 makes it tamer and more user-friendly while also being faster in acceleration.

I'll have to ride it, but the numbers already speak for themselves - more or less the same torque as a 1000cc superbike, stratospheric redline....heavier.

Why wait two years? I had a '10 BMW S1000RR, out of the first production run - these had the lightweight crankshafts. You could blip the motor and it would rev like a 600cc. The bike was absolutely brutal. I got a '12 S1000RR - it's smoother and more refined, and was probably faster too as well. And they added heated grips - a mandatory item if it's going to call itself a BMW.

The 1199 can be tricky to ride. It doesn't have the IMU and other fancy gizmos of the 1299, but most importantly - it doesn't have the torque. Plus, a lot of 1199 owners seem to deal with odd mysterious ailments. The 1299 has been the most reliable motorcycle I have ever owned in my life, period. Two years and 11k miles, and in its life it wouldn't start on the first try (but always the second)...that's happened maybe five times total.

I also own a Multistrada 1200 - the first ones were good, but after two years, it got dual spark ignition and is just one hell of a bike.

Anyways, however good a bike is, the two year revision has always been better in my case. I'd bet the farm on the Demosedici Stradale seeing several changes for the 2020 model year - maybe a displacement tweak, most certainly a remap, and the R version (or an S with full exhaust) will make north of 230bhp.

Whether or not I buy a V-4, the 1299S will remain in the garage permanently - the last, and absolutely the very best, V-twin superbike ever made.
 
topolino said:
I beg to differ. I fly the AW189 and it leaks like a seive when it's raining. No different to any other helicopter.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk
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I don’t fly them, but I ride in different rotary wings almost on a weekly basis. Once when I pointed out the puddle of oil by the aircraft to the crew chief he said “That’s how you know it’s working. It’s when they stop leaking that you need to worry”.
 
Rogue said:
I don't fly them, but I ride in different rotary wings almost on a weekly basis. Once when I pointed out the puddle of oil by the aircraft to the crew chief he said "That's how you know it's working. It's when they stop leaking that you need to worry".
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Most helis have oil drain tubes that exit under the belly of the aircraft. These collect any residual oil that the engines leak (and they all leak a little) from the decking underneath their mountings. This decking is designed to allow the oil to pool towards a drain point and eventually into the tube and out under the aircraft. Air flow often spreads even a tiny amount of oil that exits these tubes, back up the underside of the belly and along the tail boom, making the leak look a lot worse than in reality it is. 99.9% of the the time it's perfectly normal to see the odd drip. A puddle of oil on the floor. Hmmm. Depends on the type to some extent but, as I said they all leak to a greater or lesser extent and maintenance is so heavily regulated that any serious issues would/should be picked up when the aircraft is turned around after each flight.
 
Well, even with the unveiling and open pre-orders for the V4's I just traded in my '16 1299S for a '16 Panigale R :D
 
i think the V4 overall is pretty disappointing. here is my humble theory as to why:

back in the early 2010s when Ducati designed the original panigale, they had the full blessing from VW to spend as much as they wanted on the development of the bike. while the 1199 panigale was not perfect, the superquadro engine in itself was an engineering marvel and it truly pushed the envelope. subsequent models like the superleggera R and 1299 improved in an already excellent platform.

Now the V4 was developed under the cloud of dieselgate, by this time vw did not have the funds to spend as they did back when the original panigale was developed and we primarily see this in the weight of the bike, anyone wonder why they are using the same exact rims as the old panigale on the S trim? yes you might excuse the weight gains to the extra 2 cylinders but it makes you question, from the manufacturer that released the lightest production bike about a year ago, cant they find weight savings anywhere else to upset the weight of the engine? another thing that makes me wonder if costs were cut is the stradale V4 engine itself. after reading all the technical articles about it, i see this engine is not sleeved like the the old superquadro engine. when their moto GP engines are sleeved, if this engine was truly derived from its race counterpart why not feature that in the road version? they cant argue reliability, as panigales have reported over 60k miles on their engines without major issues. another thing. the v4 uses the same suspension as the 1299 save for electronics. but why not develop different a different suspension as there was definitely room for improvement on the 1299 suspension?

in all i am glad ducati went with a V4 engine but i will not buy one until it has been tried and tested. I think ducati held back a lot on this bike (due to financial issues i hope) and I cant wait till VW is back in their feet an can provide Ducati with open checkbooks as they did before. I truly believe Ducati has the potential of making a killer V4 motorcycle. is the 2018 panigale v4 that bike? no. is it impressive still? yes, could it be better? oh yes!

I am also in the same bandwagon of keeping my 1299s as it is the last of its kind and the best of its kind there was.
 
I thought sleeving was only done if there wasn't enough material between the cylinders. It adds more weight to sleeve then just Nikasil the bores correct?
Maybe somebody can chime in
 
Ummm, just a few problems with your humble theory... ;)

First, VW didn't acquire Ducati until after the Panigale was already in full production, so they had zero say in it's development. Investindustrial would've had that call.
As for the sleeving, the original design 1199 had aluminum cylinders with a Nikasil coating, but when they punched it out to a 1299, they would not have had room to put larger aluminum cylinders in without redoing the entire engine to make room for the coolant channels, so they used thinner iron sleeves, still with a Nikasil coating, that have the same outer diameter as the 1199's aluminum ones. That was a $ saving move right there that added about 1.25 pounds to the engine, but it made perfect sense at the time.
And of course the suspension, while still electronically-controlled Ohlins on the S, is otherwise not at all the same. It's completely different in the back, with different shock, mounting, linkage, etc., and at either end, nobody outside Ducati and Ohlins at this point knows anything about valve stacks or spring rates or the algorithms in the Ohlins control unit.

Compared to any other Superbike engine you can buy, save maybe the WSBK spec RSV4 Aprilia sells in hyper-limited quantities and Ducati's own R and SL versions of the V2 Panigale, I see zero evidence of corner cutting. That's a hell of a motor! One can reasonably take issue with other design choices in the V4, but the motor's hard to argue with. When that thing shows up in R or SL trim it's going to be nuts; not far from it now...:cool:

wrussi said:
i think the V4 overall is pretty disappointing. here is my humble theory as to why:

back in the early 2010s when Ducati designed the original panigale, they had the full blessing from VW to spend as much as they wanted on the development of the bike. while the 1199 panigale was not perfect, the superquadro engine in itself was an engineering marvel and it truly pushed the envelope. subsequent models like the superleggera R and 1299 improved in an already excellent platform.

Now the V4 was developed under the cloud of dieselgate, by this time vw did not have the funds to spend as they did back when the original panigale was developed and we primarily see this in the weight of the bike, anyone wonder why they are using the same exact rims as the old panigale on the S trim? yes you might excuse the weight gains to the extra 2 cylinders but it makes you question, from the manufacturer that released the lightest production bike about a year ago, cant they find weight savings anywhere else to upset the weight of the engine? another thing that makes me wonder if costs were cut is the stradale V4 engine itself. after reading all the technical articles about it, i see this engine is not sleeved like the the old superquadro engine. when their moto GP engines are sleeved, if this engine was truly derived from its race counterpart why not feature that in the road version? they cant argue reliability, as panigales have reported over 60k miles on their engines without major issues. another thing. the v4 uses the same suspension as the 1299 save for electronics. but why not develop different a different suspension as there was definitely room for improvement on the 1299 suspension?

in all i am glad ducati went with a V4 engine but i will not buy one until it has been tried and tested. I think ducati held back a lot on this bike (due to financial issues i hope) and I cant wait till VW is back in their feet an can provide Ducati with open checkbooks as they did before. I truly believe Ducati has the potential of making a killer V4 motorcycle. is the 2018 panigale v4 that bike? no. is it impressive still? yes, could it be better? oh yes!

I am also in the same bandwagon of keeping my 1299s as it is the last of its kind and the best of its kind there was.
Click to expand...
 
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VW/Audi bought Ducati around April 2012. Diesel gate broke around September 2015.......... I think there is some substance to this theory about V4 budget constraints. Ducati even had one of their top designers leave around this.
 
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From what i have seen from motorcylist, bike world, and 44 teeth. The V4 looks killer and the base model doesnt have the crapolla marzocchi forks anymore.
Thank God for the big piston showa.
My base 1299 suspension was crap so a track day wasnt even a option. Lol
I caught wind of the V4 coming down the road and sold the 1299. So i bought a 1098s to get me thorough the 2018 season and hopefully will buy a V4 base in 2019. Throw a ohlins out back and tweak
the showa forks and keep it forever. I would prefer the S model but wifey would faintif she googled the S model.. lmao
Will be interesting to read about riding the V4 off track and hearing about how much heat is coming off engine and exhaust. It has to be better than 1199/1299. And its nice to see the eletronic ohlins rear shock cables are no longer going to be digging into our thighs anymore like the 1199/1299 S model and R model years that had eletronic suspension. From a design stand point i dont understand how that was even acceptable for a motorcycle of that calber to have such a design flaw. Strange

There all nice and their all special just put some exhau st on them... lol
Ride safe
 

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