If I knew then what I know now

Vanquisher said:

And here come the fanboys lol. 3/4 of the people on this thread don't even know why the OP made this post and come in here talking about something that doesn't even pertain to the OP. I don't think the OP cares if you think the 1199 is the best motorcycle of all time or you think he loves BMWs. What a joke.

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What he came on here and told us is that we are in denial if we think the Ducati is worth the money, and that the bike is a piece of .... that we were idiots for buying one. I'm not sure how it could be any more clear than that. I for one simply explained why I bought one and why it was worth the money to me.

If he doesn't care what we think he should not have started this thread, because I for one don't give a .... what he thinks. How's that feel for being brutally honest in return for your snippy post?

It's a personal decision that everybody will make differently. Either the Pani speaks to you and you can ignore her faults or she doesn't and you find them irritating and unacceptable. I'm sorta on the fence since I already had the melted fairing, but just got hit with the leaking valve covers and no right turn signals at the same time.

I'm going to chime in here with words that mean nothing, but felt I had to say it.

Mark (specifically) and others that has issues with this bike - I'm really sorry to hear of the issues (and honestly hope that it doesn't happen to me). I've been fortunate with my Base thus far without any issues that worry me yet. I don't ever like to see any riding brother down for any issues, regardless of the brand.

I personally bought the bike because when the issues with my ZX-10r happened (mechanic issue, not bike issue... The first time I farmed out my work, turned into the last) I wanted a new bike. I had always wanted a Ducati and went in to get the 1198 only to find out that there were only 1199 available at the dealership... So I bit, blind.

Personally, I like this bike, much like I've liked my other bikes. Each bike has had their own personalities and their own pros and cons but I just love to ride.

Whichever route you take Mark, I hope the bike treats you well and keep the rubber side down. At the end of the day, it's not what you have between your legs, but what is behind your shirt pocket (heart).

jjsC6 said:

What he came on here and told us is that we are in denial if we think the Ducati is worth the money, and that the bike is a piece of .... that we were idiots for buying one. I'm not sure how it could be any more clear than that. I for one simply explained why I bought one and why it was worth the money to me.

If he doesn't care what we think he should not have started this thread, because I for one don't give a .... what he thinks. How's that feel for being brutally honest in return for your snippy post?

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I guess thats how you interpreted it. I thought the man just came on here not to bash the motorcycle itself I think deep down he does love it like we all do/did. You wouldn't have bought it if you didn't feel a certain way about it. I think its similar to Whitepani just venting some frustration that something that you do love and had such high expectations for you let you down in multiple areas and multiple times. Which gets back to I believe his point of "value". Are you really getting a well made motorcycle for the money? I mean everything breaks down and has issues nothing is without fault but some of the issues on the panigale are like a "Really? How could you not have thought about that" kind of problems. I guess I expect a little more for the money than just the name that is printed on the bike. Thats my .02

I'm happy that your bike is running well and truthfully besides some small things like the fairing so is mine. Sometimes when your let down by something its nice to know that others feel the same way about it and have shared your problems be that for a good purpose or a bad one. In my experience when I have had issues like that and people said "yeah you know I'm dissapointed to but.." actually helped me shelf the issues I was having to see beyond them and rekindle the love for the bike/car whatever. So I guess I just thought it was stupid that people with absolutely 0 knowledge of the BMW bike came on and said piss off go buy a BMW or made some irrelevant post.

Vanquisher said:

I'm happy that your bike is running well and truthfully besides some small things like the fairing so is mine. Sometimes when your let down by something its nice to know that others feel the same way about it and have shared your problems be that for a good purpose or a bad one. In my experience when I have had issues like that and people said "yeah you know I'm dissapointed to but.." actually helped me shelf the issues I was having to see beyond them and rekindle the love for the bike/car whatever. So I guess I just thought it was stupid that people with absolutely 0 knowledge of the BMW bike came on and said piss off go buy a BMW or made some irrelevant post.

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I'm always a proponent for civilized discussion and see no problem venting frustration while looking for community support on particular issues, but by the first post of the thread the OP began comparisons between the Panigale and the BMW and R1. By the fourth paragraph he had posted a video review of an HP4 and stated those are the types of reviews the Pani should be getting, all the while neglecting to acknowledge that the Pani has indeed received plenty of stellar reviews. By the end of the first post, the tone of the thread was less about issues with the Panigale and more about greener pastures, which will understandably attract attention from the many here who do not feel the same way.

my point of this thread was not ducati vs everybody else. my point on showing the hp4 is what you get for your money. full Ti akra exhaust we get stainless steal termi if you want to buy it. adjustable usable rearsets. we get our crap. heated hand grips and adjustable levers sure we can buy those too. so now your 25k S is now 30k and wont outperform any of the other liter bikes for 1/2 the price (or the Europeans for 10k less). now personally i dont care about the money if i get what i paid for. i for one had to fight 3 months with ducati na to get the lower fairing with the oil viewer after my other fairing melted. they sent the old fairing i refused to take it. i had to get my paint protection redone they didnt want to pay said it was aftermarket. i said if your damn fairing didnt melt i wouldnt need to replace the heat protection imagine that. The damn fairing melted!!! how do you overlook something like that when your ad says checkmate. how do you overlook not being able to check your oil, how do you overlook the heat, rearsets that feel like ice, bolts flying off, cant change your own oil and coolant without taking all day? a 2 hour windscreen change, no shop manual after 2 years (yes i have mine now) constantly bleeding my brakes (never did that with my ninja) this is what i am talking about.

say what you want about the bmw its ugly no soul what have you and yes i know mag victories doesnt mean anything but after hearing the best bike ever made and you consistently come in third being 10k more than the competition im tired of hearing it (not to mention the bmw has been the same basically since it was introduced and you still cant beat it in the reviews). So if you are a loyal ducati fan (ducatista or whatever you want to call yourself) i understand you taking it personally as i bashed your beloved 1199 (my friend is one and ducati can do no wrong) or the ducati brand. i am sure if i had no problems my post would be different but i didnt so its not. so i understand why you come here with guns blasing but seriously look at the total product offering. i hope none of you on here have the problems i have had.

now i am almost at the 2 year mark. would you loyal fans go without an extended warranty? i mean the dash alone is 2k. would your decision on the warranty be different if it were say an r1 or cbr. i am thinking it is.

so i ask you how can you claim that this bike is made superior to any other out there and justify the premium and soul is not the answer.

THIS IS THE POINT OF MY POST.

im done ranting now. come april i will know the answer to all these questions and the right decision for me.

oh and thanks for all the input on both sides. vanquisher thanks for the great review of both bikes.
deep down i really do want this bike to be the best and thats why im frustrated because its not and there is so much potential for it to be. for all of you that think it is and have no problems i am very happy for you. i wouldnt be so upset with the bike if i spent say 20k all in like if it were an r1 but i spent 30. thats the point again.

sorry lastly if you want to see a real rider ride take a look at this clip.

Video: Casey Stoner Testing the Honda RCV1000R


sorry i had to get 1 rossi shot in there

I don't want to multi quote and address every response, but the first post absolutely bashed the bike and said that anyone who does not admit they made a mistake is in denial.

Btw, if the comparison is to the BMW, I freely admit it is probably the better bike and a lot more bike for the money. Had it not been for my dealer relationship I probably would have bought the BMW.

As I sit here thinking about this (at Starbucks waiting for my boss to get into town) I want to be sure my comments are in proper perspective. I have no issue with the OPs post. I get what he was saying. What set me off was the post telling "us" that we are fanboys for standing up for our support of the Panigale and that we somehow were not understanding the thread.

mark419ny said:

Ahh the old hindsight is 20/20. I speak to a lot of 1199 owners on here and in person privately and I get the same reaction. The forum just masks excuses for Ducati cause people don't want to admit a 20k mistake but I'll be totally honest here and admit the 1199 was my biggest purchase mistake and the experience will keep me from ever purchasing a Ducati again. I have had old heat shield problems, new heat shield problems, a melting fairing, a melting rear hugger, bolts fly off, rear set swing arm problem ( although that is an aftermarket purchase), signal issue and paint problem. I have the bike since June 2012. Problem is in the first 2 years you can't get rid of the bike you lose too much.

The reaction to every person I ask is the same a wincing like pain reaction. What do you think of the bike. I get well and a face like you have stomach cramps saying its good but....

I am also a member of the s1000rr forum. I can tell you these complaints are not really posted. Neither are they on the r1 forum. I know it happens to all makes but nothing is like it is with the 1199. I think what could have been if Ducati actually thought things through. With the most amazing looking bike yet you have to spend 30k to get the kind of performance the base should have. Keep in mind you can get an hp4 for 20k which will stay with an r anytime and is the price of a base with a full system and it's a titanium full akra exhaust system far and a way better quality than termi.

This is what the 1199 should have been and the reviews it should get.

2013 BMW HP4 Onboard Video Review

I know this will get blasted but the next time you have a dash problem bolt problem or an oil leak or your decision is what to do about an extended warranty or it takes you 3 hours to change the oil and coolant remember this post.

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i never said one word about being a fan boy, i also said that excuses are made to not have to admit a mistake. if you love the bike and there is nothing wrong and its everything you thought and more GREAT. if not then this thread is for you.

jjsC6 said:

As I sit here thinking about this (at Starbucks waiting for my boss to get into town) I want to be sure my comments are in proper perspective. I have no issue with the OPs post. I get what he was saying. What set me off was the post telling "us" that we are fanboys for standing up for our support of the Panigale and that we somehow were not understanding the thread.

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I agree completely.... I think most of us can fully understand Marks frustrations ... I really like this bike for reasons that probably make no sense....but I am in no way a "Fanboy" I am not here to defend it or my decision to buy it but I think its very reasonable for other people to do so.... Mark did make a withering attack on the bike... based on what he has gone through I would have too... But putting that out there is obviously going to engender a response...

Stw said:

I agree completely.... I think most of us can fully understand Marks frustrations ... I really like this bike for reasons that probably make no sense....but I am in no way a "Fanboy" I am not here to defend it or my decision to buy it but I think its very reasonable for other people to do so.... Mark did make a withering attack on the bike... based on what he has gone through I would have too... But putting that out there is obviously going to engender a response...

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STW i really like the bike too but there are just so many things that have been a problem that it takes away from joy of ownership. WE as the buyer should not have to pay for stuff that should be standard through and through (ie rearsets comfort or race seat etc)

that is the problem if everything was fine i would have no issues but i have to upgrade and still i have issues and that is the problem

the bmw i wasnt comparing the bike's performance, i was comparing what you get for your money. for my ninja i put on the slips myself and installed the power commander and airfilter myself. i wouldnt dream of doing that on this bike (yes i did the mwr myself) forget the process to actually do it all the tools that are not standard in a toolbox to do it and lack of a shop manual.

im tired of complaining. i will post a review of the hp4 in april

mark419ny said:

STW i really like the bike too but there are just so many things that have been a problem that it takes away from joy of ownership. WE as the buyer should not have to pay for stuff that should be standard through and through (ie rearsets comfort or race seat etc)

that is the problem if everything was fine i would have no issues but i have to upgrade and still i have issues and that is the problem

the bmw i wasnt comparing the bike's performance, i was comparing what you get for your money. for my ninja i put on the slips myself and installed the power commander and airfilter myself. i wouldnt dream of doing that on this bike (yes i did the mwr myself) forget the process to actually do it all the tools that are not standard in a toolbox to do it.

im tired of complaining. i will post a review of the hp4 in april

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Mark... I have no issues with your posts or your point of view.... The HP4 is an awesome machine...

I'm confused as to why you would want to compare the 1199 to the HP4. Price verses reliability maybe. But it is a different machine, a twin vs an in-line four.
I left the Jap bikes long ago due to the enjoyment of the twin. I reminded myself of that when I jumped on a buddies CBR recently. I'll never go back to an inline.

With that said...Many know me on here as a long time 996 believer. As stated in the start of this thread, hind sight is 20/20. I came from a 1098 and hated it(many riders love them), before that was a 996 as my first Duc and fell in love. I'll be going back after a while. The 996 has never left me stranded (nor the 1098 or any Jap bike), the 1199s has three times.

So I do agree this bike is the most maintenance intensive motorcyle ever owned. Price does not equate to value. (unless you a have a Duc dealer in your back pocket) I do not.

This is however the most exciting and best handling track bike I have EVER ridden...when it starts and crap doesn't fall off!

gman74 said:

I'm confused as to why you would want to compare the 1199 to the HP4. Price verses reliability maybe. But it is a different machine, a twin vs an in-line four.
I left the Jap bikes long ago due to the enjoyment of the twin. I reminded myself of that when I jumped on a buddies CBR recently. I'll never go back to an inline.

With that said...Many know me on here as a long time 996 believer. As stated in the start of this thread, hind sight is 20/20. I came from a 1098 and hated it(many riders love them), before that was a 996 as my first Duc and fell in love. I'll be going back after a while. The 996 has never left me stranded (nor the 1098 or any Jap bike), the 1199s has three times.

So I do agree this bike is the most maintenance intensive motorcyle ever owned. Price does not equate to value. (unless you a have a Duc dealer in your back pocket) I do not.

This is however the most exciting and best handling track bike I have EVER ridden...when it starts and crap doesn't fall off!

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yes G thats what i was saying. what you get for your money with the bmw is by far more than the 1199. the hp4 base is the 2k more than a base 1199. you get a full system on the base 1199 and its 1500 more than the hp4. hell you dont even get slips with the 1199 s and your 4 grand more than the base hp4 or equal to the hp4 competition. so for 20k you can have better than R performance for 30k. Lets face it if you flip to the hp4 section of the s1000rr forum every single person will agree because of what i posted just like most disagree here or flip the argument and they will all disagree there and agree here. my point is its opinions.

yes the pani can leave you stranded or may not start or start leaking oil. thats my point. all this money and you cant trust the thing.

there should be rave reviews in the mags and i shouldnt have to upgrade a seat and pegs when i drop 25k

Stw said:

I agree completely.... I think most of us can fully understand Marks frustrations ... I really like this bike for reasons that probably make no sense....but I am in no way a "Fanboy" I am not here to defend it or my decision to buy it but I think its very reasonable for other people to do so.... Mark did make a withering attack on the bike... based on what he has gone through I would have too... But putting that out there is obviously going to engender a response...

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+1

mark419ny said:

yes G thats what i was saying. what you get for your money with the bmw is by far more than the 1199. the hp4 base is the 2k more than a base 1199. you get a full system on the base 1199 and its 1500 more than the hp4. hell you dont even get slips with the 1199 s and your 4 grand more than the base hp4 or equal to the hp4 competition. so for 20k you can have better than R performance for 30k. Lets face it if you flip to the hp4 section of the s1000rr forum every single person will agree because of what i posted just like most disagree here or flip the argument and they will all disagree there and agree here. my point is its opinions.

yes the pani can leave you stranded or may not start or start leaking oil. thats my point. all this money and you cant trust the thing.

there should be rave reviews in the mags and i shouldnt have to upgrade a seat and pegs when i drop 25k

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One of your primary bases for dissapointment appears to be price compared to the price of the HP4, yet surely you realized these aspects (rearsets, seat, exhaust, etc.) prior to making your Panigale purchase. I would venture to say most owners here also became aware of these differences when shopping bikes yet purchased the Panigale anyway due primarily to the fact that, for a little more, you have access to a bike that offers far more than any I4 could provide.

Most Panigale owners were probably not counting pennies leading up to their purchase but were instead looking for something above and beyond what other manufacturers can offer in terms of performance characteristics and style. You suggest the HP4 offers more; I strongly disagree and see it the other way around.

I tend to agree with Duck41. Mark's states the point of his post that there's not much value in the Panigale, but if you're looking for value and 'best bang for your buck' then Ducati is probably not the right brand for you. Kinda like comparing a Corvette and 911 .... the Corvette is just as fast or faster and handles nearly the same but is a fraction of the cost. However they still sell many 911's to people who would never consider a Vette. BUT, with the price premium there should not be multiple problems with DQS, that ain't right would wear on me too.

Knock on wood, my lowly Base model has been flawless.