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well most mistresses come with a bit of baggage attached anyway. 
I spent two days at barber on one of Code's standard s1000s, it's a superb bike, and while not terribly sexy looking it's a sweet ride. The HP4 imagine is even more so. If I were in a sportbike mindset still I'd do all I could to have both, Mark's a lucky guy that he can do that.
I spent two days at barber on one of Code's standard s1000s, it's a superb bike, and while not terribly sexy looking it's a sweet ride. The HP4 imagine is even more so. If I were in a sportbike mindset still I'd do all I could to have both, Mark's a lucky guy that he can do that.
so you'll soon have two beautiful pains in the neck
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well most mistresses come with a bit of baggage attached anyway.
i spent two days at barber on one of code's standard s1000s, it's a superb bike, and while not terribly sexy looking it's a sweet ride. The hp4 imagine is even more so. If i were in a sportbike mindset still i'd do all i could to have both, mark's a lucky guy that he can do that.
:d :d
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I love my bike....only a couple of minor issues.
I really don't care what other bikes are comparable or not as far as performance/price. I value reliability but reality is less of a concern as this is not my only transportation. I value the look, feel, and experience that this bike gives me as compared to the others I have ridden over pure reliability (although I have not had those issues to date).
I could have had each of them and chose this one because it ticks all the right boxes for me. Temperamental or not....I love it and go out of my way to find time to ride it.
That's all I need out of a toy....a lot of excitement.
I really don't care what other bikes are comparable or not as far as performance/price. I value reliability but reality is less of a concern as this is not my only transportation. I value the look, feel, and experience that this bike gives me as compared to the others I have ridden over pure reliability (although I have not had those issues to date).
I could have had each of them and chose this one because it ticks all the right boxes for me. Temperamental or not....I love it and go out of my way to find time to ride it.
That's all I need out of a toy....a lot of excitement.
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No context and far too many variables. I could post plenty of clips of the Panigale overtaking the HP4 in Superstock, yet what value would it add to the discourse of this thread?
I can't help but wonder, with people saying that BMW owners have a similar amount of issues.....if Mark started out on the BMW, I wonder if he'd be doing this same thing, but on the BMW forum, and deciding to switch and try a Pani because of "all the issues with the BMW".
That's not a shot at Mark, I'm just wondering if it's true that both bikes have issues, and Mark is just more familiar with the issues accompanying the Pani since it's all he has known thus far, so that rules his view point.....I guess we'll find out in April.
You make excellent points.
In the main, there's a higher proportion of the whinging quotient among the BMW owning contingent. IMO.
It has been noted that it's sort of in proportion to their personal overinflated sense of entitlement.
When un-forfilled it tends to result in varying degrees of disillusionment, and a view that the grass is greener on the other side of the fence.
I think they can tend to "want" it all just a little too much.
It's a case of delusion and or naivety IMO.
Having said that I totally acknowledge Marks experience has not been good on a number of levels, and I do actually sympathise with him to a large degree.
Having said that, I couldn't care less about his experiences after April good or bad with the HP4 except to say that I genuinely wish him all the best.
This is after all an 1199 forum.
Not trying to be a smart ... but I don't think he's a DUCATI type of person.
To buy into one of these things, one must go in with their eyes wide open and a high level of understanding of what you're dealing with, and be prepared to perservere as required until it's all good. It's only then that one will be truly rewarded.
It's all about the V-Twin grin with sexy styling that moves the soul.
Either you get it, or you don't. IMO.
Don't get me wrong, I've had a couple of issues with mine and the worst was a really silly little thing that related to crappy material specifications That was going to be very expensive for DUCATI to rectify. So they opted to knock me back on warranty.
So then I had to fight tooth and nail with the support of my dealer to get some sort of satisfaction. Seeing as Ducati Italy had knocked it back on warranty, the importer went out of their way to bring the matter to a close for me.
To my way of thinking, he seems to be better suited to the BMW type of ownership experience, and will be more satisfied/happier over there to have it all laid on for him.
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As I said in a previous post, it's a bummer that Mark's had a bad experience with his bike. But that's his experience and it's given him (good) reason to question his Ducati experience. Let's leave it at that.
I think the wrong way to look at the thread is comparing different bikes to the 1199 and making a definitive statement of which is better. Everyone's got different criteria for what their best bike is. And please don't use magazine shootouts and reviews as proof of anything. We've got guys at the club level on old R6's dropping 15secs/lap faster than the journalists on HP4's, R's, and ZX-10's on the same tracks. In fact, nearly every bike manufacturer is represented in most clubs' elite classes - all dropping very fast times simply because good riders can ride most anything fast.
I think the wrong way to look at the thread is comparing different bikes to the 1199 and making a definitive statement of which is better. Everyone's got different criteria for what their best bike is. And please don't use magazine shootouts and reviews as proof of anything. We've got guys at the club level on old R6's dropping 15secs/lap faster than the journalists on HP4's, R's, and ZX-10's on the same tracks. In fact, nearly every bike manufacturer is represented in most clubs' elite classes - all dropping very fast times simply because good riders can ride most anything fast.
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We all know the Pani is down on power.... That loop in the exhaust seems to be an issue they haven't worked out.. I thought for sure they would have changed it. I think that would be too expensive... Ducati must figure let the aftermarket's have it.. If Ducati follows its model we should see a new superbike, in about 3 years.. 999, 1098/1198 especially since the GP bike is changing...
Audi is looking at this long term. They realize it was flawed but are also trying to move as many flawed units as they can... Enter the SL
Think about it S1k has been out for what 4 yrs ? At first they sucked... Now they are awesome... Pani needs more R&D or a V4....
Same with the 1098/1198 went out on top... New tech etc.. I personally don't see them winning this go round.. Unless they change the exhaust,
Now I hear the BMW's run on 2 cylinders in the turns & only 4 when they need it.
This is in WSBK not sure about super stock... That is pretty cool...
(true story)
I bought the Duc cuz the Bimmer felt like a honda. It was fast but it's ugly & I don't want a Honda..
I rode the Duc 2 girls said is that your bike & can we go for a ride...
I came back from my test ride never to visit the BMW dealer again....
I wish I could say it was all the bells & whistles or the dash or whatever... my practical mind was telling me BMW BMW BMW but my other head won.
No regrets until the R came out..
Audi is looking at this long term. They realize it was flawed but are also trying to move as many flawed units as they can... Enter the SL
Think about it S1k has been out for what 4 yrs ? At first they sucked... Now they are awesome... Pani needs more R&D or a V4....
Same with the 1098/1198 went out on top... New tech etc.. I personally don't see them winning this go round.. Unless they change the exhaust,
Now I hear the BMW's run on 2 cylinders in the turns & only 4 when they need it.
This is in WSBK not sure about super stock... That is pretty cool...
(true story)
I bought the Duc cuz the Bimmer felt like a honda. It was fast but it's ugly & I don't want a Honda..
I rode the Duc 2 girls said is that your bike & can we go for a ride...
I came back from my test ride never to visit the BMW dealer again....
I wish I could say it was all the bells & whistles or the dash or whatever... my practical mind was telling me BMW BMW BMW but my other head won.
No regrets until the R came out..
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I'd like to know where the Pani is down on power? Compared to what?
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Checa 'motivated' for Ducati challenge | WSBK News | May 2013 | Crash.Net
Also another article ripping the power of the ducati can't remember if that was GP though....
Also another article ripping the power of the ducati can't remember if that was GP though....
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If you put any dp accessories on by yourself or anyone that's not Ducati authorized dealer your warranty doesn't exist or Is nullified on the item after 17 days of waiting for a response from the Ducati regional service rep I just found this information out a long with them not giving a .... if you bought a 30,000 dollar bike... Or that you owned 3 Ducatis before that..... Hate this man really upset
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The SBK rules are very open.
The Kawasakis, Aprilias and BMWs SBK bikes are more like prototypes.
Far, far away from the stock bikes.
The pani is not (yet) as well developed and therefore not competitive in SBK class. But take a look at the results in Superstock 1000 and you will see
our bellezza in the frontrow. - beside the BMWs etc.
IMO the new SBK regulations coming 2015 will change the game in a good way for the Panigale.
By the way ... For me the purchase was (also) a decision of the heart.
The Pani is based on a somewhat extreme concept. I like that.
Until now 100% satisfaction, only great pleasure and zero problems.
just this little issue concerning the indicators.
additional questions:
a) did you "rode" the girls as well ?
b) where can i meet them ?
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So true.
My best friend is going to buy a cheap 1000 once I get my Panigale to prove that fact.
He hated that the 848 would walk past his Moto Guzi lol
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If you are referring to the stock bike setup then I think you may have been misinformed as the Panigale is neck and neck on HP with the other top bikes. If, however, you are referring to the WSBK bikes then yes, that bike is down on power compared to the field due primarily to the rules imposed on the Panigale that disallows Ducati from utilizing high compression pistons like the I4s and which also forces Ducati to choke their stock 67mm throttle bodies down to somewhere in the low 50mm range.
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As far as WSBK goes. The Beemers and kawis run 2 cylinders in corners for traction, and less than 4 mid race for fuel consumption. It comes down to power pulses. The v-twins advantage is nullified by these highly developed electronics that are run in that series. Ultimately you will always get more power out of 4 250cc positions than 2 600cc pistions when it comes to power pulses from the engine. What will be interesting is that now with the new rules, if BMW and Kawasaki will try and employ this technology on their road going bikes in order to compete. This will definitely up the price of their bikes.
When it comes down to the 1199 being down on power...it isn't. From what I have read and heard, it has to due with the engine heat raising the temp of the fuel mid race and that is where it is losing it. Ducati is going to have to deal with this problem eventually. Us complaining about high heat on the road is the tip of the iceberg, it has a real effect racing.
2015 will be the year that the tale will be told. Aprilia has to deal with engine reliability, BMW is going thru trannys, Honda will have their "take no prisoners" V4. Hopefully, Ducati will have a solution.
The real world...riding on the road(which is where the majority of bikes stay), the twin will always rule,....IMHO. It's a lot of work to run an I4 at speed when ducking traffic, police, .... pavement, and low speed limits. Might as well just concentrate on looking good,a which the 1199 does even at a stand still
With that expectation you will never be happy for too long. As was said earlier, there is always something better around the corner.
In fact, the S1000RR is technically still on its first generation and 5 years in now (frame stiffness alterations and first-gen active suspension are mid-cycle "enhancements"). Even though they've been kicking everyone's tail since their debut, I'd wager a 2nd-gen ground-up redesign is probably undergoing certification right now. If it were me, I'd wait for news to be confirmed about the 2015 model specifics (and include the forthcoming 2nd-Gen Aprilia RSV4 Factory on my shopping list). However, if owning both is in your budget then don't deny yourself the pleasure today. If you love the HP4 and it delivers most of your expectations, then you can sell your "lemon/Friday build" 1199 and get the next gen S1000RR.
I used to be that guy that changed bikes/cars every other year because I wanted the latest-greatest. Perhaps due to some maturation combined with a child reducing the adult-toy budget, I'm doing much less of that, and am much happier because of it. I bought a leftover 2012 1199 Base for $16,300, plus Ducati made the first 6 payments (another $1300 off). I used that money and a bit more on an aftermarket shock, used Termi slip/upmap and "S" Marchesinis. In this form, it already runs circles around the Crossplane R1 I previously had with $10K+ in Ohlins FGRT/TTX, Bazzaz Z-Fi TC, Billet MC, etc. Add me to the list of those that are very happy with their 1199 and consider it the ultimate bike out of the 20 I've owned/modded previously, with reliability after 4K miles on par with my other machines.
Looking forward on your reports of the HP4 vs. 1199 experience, and a bit jealous that you'll have both
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That is not legal, but you may have to go to court and fight it. I guess I don't have a warranty on my DP seat
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Well, I guess I'll throw in my .02 on this...not that it matters in the grand scheme of everyone's opinions.
Yes, we all know there are some issues with the Pani and luckily I have only experienced the TSB881 harness issue, loose ground on the dash, paint issue. All were taken care of in a timely manner from my dealer. I'm good with that and being a first year bike there could be and will be issues. I don't think you can count bolts falling out due to improper installation of aftermarket parts. I do agree with the thought that they could have provided better pegs and seat but I don't think any manufacturer provides everything perfect or there would be no need for aftermarket parts.
I don't disagree completely with Mark and I get his frustration from the issues he has had and was there with him for the ridiculous coolant change procedure. I get it but is the BMW the answer? Maybe it is depending on the person.
If you are looking for value based on performance then sure the BMW is a better value for the $ if that's what you want to ride. Value was never a factor in my purchase of the Pani or else I would have just kept my CBR.
Everyone will have different experiences with their bike no matter who the manufacturer and model is. There isn't a perfect bike out there. I had a 2008 CBR1K and it had recalls for radiator hose clamp and crank issues. Yup, even Honda has issues.
Let's look at how many WSBK titles BMW has... Zero? And for Superstock they aren't walking away from the Pani which is more of a real test of the bikes we ride.
At the end of the day how many of us can ring them out and get all the potential out of them? So, it comes down to comfort, reliability, and of course looks for most of us normal people. Just buy whatever makes you happy and ride!
And Mark, I'll be looking forward to your review and comparison of the HP4 cause I know you'll be brutally honest.
Disclaimer - This was just my opinion and was not an attack at anyone's comments in this thread or bash on Mark.
End of .02 rambling...
Yes, we all know there are some issues with the Pani and luckily I have only experienced the TSB881 harness issue, loose ground on the dash, paint issue. All were taken care of in a timely manner from my dealer. I'm good with that and being a first year bike there could be and will be issues. I don't think you can count bolts falling out due to improper installation of aftermarket parts. I do agree with the thought that they could have provided better pegs and seat but I don't think any manufacturer provides everything perfect or there would be no need for aftermarket parts.
I don't disagree completely with Mark and I get his frustration from the issues he has had and was there with him for the ridiculous coolant change procedure. I get it but is the BMW the answer? Maybe it is depending on the person.
If you are looking for value based on performance then sure the BMW is a better value for the $ if that's what you want to ride. Value was never a factor in my purchase of the Pani or else I would have just kept my CBR.
Everyone will have different experiences with their bike no matter who the manufacturer and model is. There isn't a perfect bike out there. I had a 2008 CBR1K and it had recalls for radiator hose clamp and crank issues. Yup, even Honda has issues.
Let's look at how many WSBK titles BMW has... Zero? And for Superstock they aren't walking away from the Pani which is more of a real test of the bikes we ride.
At the end of the day how many of us can ring them out and get all the potential out of them? So, it comes down to comfort, reliability, and of course looks for most of us normal people. Just buy whatever makes you happy and ride!
And Mark, I'll be looking forward to your review and comparison of the HP4 cause I know you'll be brutally honest.
Disclaimer - This was just my opinion and was not an attack at anyone's comments in this thread or bash on Mark.
End of .02 rambling...
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