Inflation is out of control

As evidence by this SL’s appreciation, I bet it’ll retain its value or continue to appreciate better than any modified Ducati (apart from a Desmosedici)

Maybe someone should that Mr Neeves that there is a very serious circle jerk going on at the Ducati forum about what a .... bike it is?

And yet these dealers think they'll move the same bike at a 15k or 35k higher price tag than the 49k bike for some reason.

Paul G said:

You're new here aren't you? No one lets facts get in the way of a good argument

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Hope you pay more attention to your metalurgy expertise

RickD996 said:

Endo, back on the sauce again lol

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He forgets that he's on a Ducati board with a bunch of guy who love their bikes and not everyone has a private jet and a gold .......

While we are talking customs, here's a great vid on Topraks bike, a lot of finer points discussed and the reasoning behind upgrades

hint none of it is bling!

Paul G said:

While we are talking customs, here's a great vid on Topraks bike, a lot of finer points discussed and the reasoning behind upgrades

hint none of it is bling!

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Cool video, thanks for sharing. "it's based on a stock bike" followed by "the main frame is different" hahaha

The team principal is very generous with sharing information.

I really like the 44 Teeth/Baron Von Grumble dude. His early 1199/899 videos were awesome. The one where he was rolling around on a scooter in a full face helmet was funny as hell.

Ha, see this is where interpretation comes in Paul. You clearly state “none of it is bling” to me, it’s all “bling”. Custom frame, swing arm, brake components, engine work etc. To one guy, a meticulously welded section is a thing of beauty, to another guy, he can’t wait polish those unsightly welds clean. Not sure what “bling” is to you but it’s apparent by your comment that your interpretation is your own.

endodoc said:

Ha, see this is where interpretation comes in Paul. You clearly state “none of it is bling” to me, it’s all “bling”. Custom frame, swing arm, brake components, engine work etc. To one guy, a meticulously welded section is a thing of beauty, to another guy, he can’t wait polish those unsightly welds clean. Not sure what “bling” is to you but it’s apparent by your comment that your interpretation is your own.

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Sure, you can call it bling but I'm trying to differentiate between pointless add ons and upgrades that are in response to a rider who pushes the limits, e.g. who really needs carbon MotoGP forks on a streetbike?
That really is bling in the true sense of "jewellery or decoration that attracts attention because it is very noticeable and looks expensive"

Paul, I believe this is called “fugazi.” Putting together a custom “race” bike with fancy race parts, while admirable, doesn’t make it a fancy race bike. It doesn’t fulfill the purpose of the fancy race parts. It’s not competing in a… competition. Unless that competition is dick swinging. But who doesn’t love a little dick swinging?

Additionally, a proper engineer knows about cost analysis. Why pay $50 for titanium fastener when a 5¢ bolt will do?

Different strokes for different folks!

In regards to the SL retaining or increasing its value. It’s like beauty: It’s in the eye of the beholder. And it has pedigree and rarity. Kind of like how a barn find Miura goes for $1M despite being rusted out. You might not think the SL is worth a grain of salt now but someone does and someone in the future will think it’s worth something more when they become more rare. I think the same was said about old air-cooled Porsches back in the 90s.

SuperDomestique said:

Paul, I believe this is called “fugazi.” Putting together a custom “race” bike with fancy race parts, while admirable, doesn’t make it a fancy race bike. It doesn’t fulfill the purpose of the fancy race parts. It’s not competing in a… competition. Unless that competition is dick swinging. But who doesn’t love a little dick swinging?

Additionally, a proper engineer knows about cost analysis. Why pay $50 for titanium fastener when a 5¢ bolt will do?

Different strokes for different folks!

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Superdomestique, I knew I liked you from the moment I first laid eyes on you!

100% agree. Guys throwing big $$ parts at their motorcycle are doing it because the act of spending that money gives them pleasure. Nothing wrong with that. People spend millions on a painting and hang it on the wall. Different strokes for different folks, whatever makes you happy.

But let's be clear. Knowing and feeling the difference a $2k brake caliper makes versus a $500 caliper - that takes real skill, and real experience and seat time. Otherwise, you are just another guy who thinks your bike is better because someone told you so. And let's be real. Throwing money at off the shelf parts to bolt on to an off the shelf mass market motorcycle doesn't somehow make you an artist or brilliant creator. It just means you have money. That's all.

Again you fellows both missed the bus on graduation day. It’s obvious that neither of you have have much experience with “the good stuff” I can assure you that there is most assuredly a difference. I have had several well seasoned individuals ride things I have built with as you call it “non essential parts” and the consensus is universal “that thing is ....... amazing” the precision feel of top shelf controls, the precision in which everything works, the amazing effortless feedback from near frictionless suspension, the effortless control input from a huge reduction in rotational mass, the dramatically reduced engine harmonics from precision parts and dynamic balancing. As far as fasteners go Mr Super, if you like building and working on things I can again assure you that once you have had the opportunity to work with beautifully machined parts and assembled those parts with precision fasteners that you would understand the reason for Ti fasteners has just as much to do with the overall outcome of the assembly, not just to reduce weight. Again you and Paul have interjected “cost” as a factor which speaks volumes.

endodoc said:

Again you fellows both missed the bus on graduation day. It’s obvious that neither of you have have much experience with “the good stuff” I can assure you that there is most assuredly a difference. I have had several well seasoned individuals ride things I have built with as you call it “non essential parts” and the consensus is universal “that thing is ....... amazing” the precision feel of top shelf controls, the precision in which everything works, the amazing effortless feedback from near frictionless suspension, the effortless control input from a huge reduction in rotational mass, the dramatically reduced engine harmonics from precision parts and dynamic balancing. As far as fasteners go Mr Super, if you like building and working on things I can again assure you that once you have had the opportunity to work with beautifully machined parts and assembled those parts with precision fasteners that you would understand the reason for Ti fasteners has just as much to do with the overall outcome of the assembly, not just to reduce weight. Again you and Paul have interjected “cost” as a factor which speaks volumes.

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Seems like a rather one-sided argument... er lecture/scolding.

In fact, I'm not exactly sure where this is going now that you're arguing that "you have some fancy “I want to be a race car driver” car in your garage Tom? What’s that for? What’s wrong with a Camery?"

Whatever floats your boat or tickles your cockles

Hey Tom, oh I do plan on coming to the track, I can’t wait to ride with you. It’s definitely on my bucket list sir.

SuperDomestique said:

In regards to the SL retaining or increasing its value. It’s like beauty: It’s in the eye of the beholder. And it has pedigree and rarity. Kind of like how a barn find Miura goes for $1M despite being rusted out. You might not think the SL is worth a grain of salt now but someone does and someone in the future will think it’s worth something more when they become more rare. I think the same was said about old air-cooled Porsches back in the 90s.

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Jesus man, I was poking fun at my local dealer who prices aspirationally, not making any statement on prices actually going up... they also recently raised prices on the used 19 V4Rs they have had on sale for years ... while across town a low mileage stock 20 V4R that was priced at $42k has now come down to a quoted $37k


That SL has been sitting there for months and months. at $92k... clearly not a $92k bike let alone $110k

LOL, cracks me up how on the Ducati forum the brand gets totally bagged, serious self loathing issues going on here
As for pricing, its a free market and people are free not to buy the SL or SP as they please, anyway you don't need Ducati at all since can build a better bike with the "good stuff" and ditch the label altogether.
Makes you wonder why we all are riding Ducati's.

Im quite happy w my v4s, put a deposit on an SF SP, then switched it to the 22 v4s because I don't like wind gusts...

I like the brand just fine... not sure I want to buy an expensive bike right before everything goes on fire sale (arguably stocks already are)

I think my dealer is hilarious... that was my point

"recession, you say? I should jack the price up on this bike that's just been sitting here for six months"

Paul G said:

LOL, cracks me up how on the Ducati forum the brand gets totally bagged, serious self loathing issues going on here
As for pricing, its a free market and people are free not to buy the SL or SP as they please, anyway you don't need Ducati at all since can build a better bike with the "good stuff" and ditch the label altogether.
Makes you wonder why we all are riding Ducati's.

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Because the cost and complexity although doable to machine and engine case, heads and associated parts would be quite undertaking however to answer your question, if in the case of the V2 if you used the Pierobon chassis or in the case of the V4 the Tamburini chassis, you could build the entire bike using very few Ducati parts and they would all be engine related. Every other piece of the bike is available from an aftermarket supplier from the swingarm to the electronics etc. In my particular case its quite simple, I wanted to build a twin so I chose the platform. That being said except for a few cast logos on engine components, there isnt anything that identify my bikes as any brand. They are completely void of all branding on all parts except again for something rather permanent.

I have zero "brand" affiliation, its a motorcycle. If someone else had an alternative platform to the twin, I may have chosen that as a platform, really made no difference to me. With respect to the brand relative to Japanese companies, yes parts are a rip off, yes engineering on a lot of things is pretty ...... and yes a lot of the components that they use for the money are crap. Is what it is. Lastly to build a "better" bike you need funding, you need resources, you need time. If you think all these parts from all these vendors especially the race spec stuff just all magically bolt together, you have spent very little time around anything but "Stock" and that's why there isn't a board full of Craigs, Steven's, Mick's, Karl's, Rick's etc It ain't that easy but to sit there and deny that a track home isn't quite as good as a custom home because of pride of ownership, whatever.