Is the MWR filter worth it?

Stw said:

Hmmm...One guy has had 3 engines failures??? Something seems wrong with this scenario....
never heard of anyone having more than one....and that's rare..

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I wouldn't say rare... but I talk to lots of dealers and customers all over the country... what do I know.

BellissiMoto said:

I wouldn't say rare... but I talk to lots of dealers and customers all over the country... what do I know.

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Gotta love these veiled type of comments about such a catastrophic failure.... Are you saying engines self destructing is a common occurrence??...and by extrapolation are you saying these air filters will prevent these failures???

Stw said:

Gotta love these veiled type of comments about such a catastrophic failure.... Are you saying engines self destructing is a common occurrence??...and by extrapolation are you saying these air filters will prevent these failures???

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I'm saying I wouldn't consider a Panigale complete engine failure to be rare, and I am saying that some causes of Panigale engine failure can be prevented by this filter in some part.

Stw, do you even know all the ways these engines have failed? I'll name a few: cracked cases, case walls to porous - allowing oil to "weep" through the metal itself, cylinder/coolant wall failures, and about a dozen reasons that seem to culminate with oil being spewed out the exhaust in heaps.

That said, I'll probably buy another Panigale myself, even knowing this but I also won't be surprised if it sh!ts itself. I mean, look at how many S1000RR's blew themselves up, all in all, it's still a great bike.

BellissiMoto said:

Stw, do you even know ......

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My question first, then STW can answer yours

Sorry this is so much data guys... I haven't had a chance to really clean up the grammar from the translation, or simplify it yet, but here goes...

INTRODUCTION
ADJUSTMENT KIT MWR-500

With the "Full Race Airfilter" we developed a product what
achieved and proven to be unbeatable.

Now it time to increase the gap with the competition.
With ALL current sportsfilters (also the std. MWR performance filter) we have seen optical and on data the fuel from the upper injectors will blown away due to the force of the incoming air. Open up a airbox afther a race , the inside of the airbox it is fully wet from the fuel blowing away.

With introducing the "HE" & "R" filter it came clear that not only all four cylinders get the same amount of air but also the fuelflow of the upper injectors was better so the effect increased.

Not only the airflow is important also the flow of the fuel from the upper injectors is important . The better we "guide" the incoming air the bigger the effect of the upper injectors the more topspeed.

Afther a long time period of testing with our top teams we found out that a adjustable plate could increase the effect of the upper injectors even more , infact so much that topspeed gains of 4-5 Km/h are possible.

By lifting the plate at the front the incoming is forced to go all the way up to the top of the airbox and falls down together with the fuel of the upper injectors and almost no fuel is blowing away. This effect will be optimized by lower the rear of the plate . Optical this can be seen by open the airbox afther a race , the airbox is almost dry on the inside.

Fuel adjustments are necessary , but these adjustments can go both ways , richer or leaner , this all depents of the construction of the airbox : the position of the airfilter - the space between upper injectors & stacks and variable stacks or not . Follow the instructions of the lambda numbers and the power will come.

Quote from MAHI RACING TEAM INDIA (Kawasaki Factory Racing WSS 600) : "We had the filters tested by Akira Technologies and they told us to go ahead and fit them as there was a considerable improvement from the standard racefilter".

There is one exeption to the rule , the use of the adjustment kit for the 1199 Panigale High Efficient & Full Race filter.

The 1199 has a difference in fuelling between front & rear cylinder from about 9/10% .With the "HE" filter and "R" filter we could drop this difference with 6%.By using the adjustment kit you can open up the top of the plate and "guide" more air to the rear cylinder . By doing this the engine is even more in balance and the engine comes alive . Fuel adjustments are necessary , fuel adjustments of each cylinder separate are necessary . With the std. ECU & Corse ECU this is not possible . Therefore we advise to use a fueldevise what makes this option possible .

One of the biggest motorcyclemagazines of the UK Fast Bikes will do a independed filtertest on the 1199 Panigale . They will test the "HE" filter and the test the "HE" with the adjustmentkit MWR-500.

On the dyno you will see just a little of the increase of the performance , how higher the speed , how better the adjustable plate works . You can say that the plate works like a spoiler.

Dyno's with airspeed simulation go to a maximum speed of 150/160 Kmh , the effect of this modification will work on much higher speed.

Using the Adustmentkit MWR-500 to the "HE" filters brings for the costumers a handy extra . Costumers can ride the bike on full power but when they go to a trackday on a circuit with strikt noiseregulations they can drop the plate to the minimum hight ( 9mm) . Drop the plate to the minimum hight reduces the inletnoise with about 2/3 db (depending the modell of the bike) . The performance of the bike will be in this case at the same level as the std. paper airfilter.

The Adjustmentkit MWR-500 includes 4x springs , 4x bolts and 4x locknuts
FULL RACE FILTER SETTINGS ADJUSTABLE PLATE
Below you find the advised basic settings for the Full Race filters . Afther these basic settings costumers can optimize the performance to their own preference. By changing the hight on the rear side you can change the character of the engine. We advise to adjust the rear of the plate not more as 2mm at the same time.
Basic settings :
For all full racefilters
Front : 26mm
Rear : 12 mm
EXEPT :
MC-110-10R : Top - 16mm / bottom - 12mm (measured from the foam)
MC-022-12R : Top - 26mm / bottom - 15mm
MC-061-12R : Front - 23mm / rear - 11
MC-080-13R : Top - 26mm / bottom - 15mm
MC-090-09R : Top - 26mm / rear - 15mm

HIGH EFFICIENT FILTERS ADJUSTABLE PLATE
It is quite hard to find the right settings for the High Efficient Filters because the plates are bigger . Most of the models have limited hight space because of the contruction of the airbox or the airsensor plays a part for the limited hight .

We advise to take the toplid of the airbox , put it up-side-down ,place the filter up-side-down on his place and measure the distance between plate and airbox or airsensor , go from there to make the right hight , as high as possible by not hit the airbox or airsensor.

Note: We advise not to use the MWR-500 kit on these filter models : MC-110-05HE / MC-010-09HE /MC-050-08HE / MC-100-09HE & MC-110-10HE because it's useless .
For costumers with the MC-010-09HE & MC-110-10HE we can offer to buy the "R" plate for more performance.
We can advise the setting of a few models :
MC-010-04HE : Front - 21mm / Rear - 17mm
MC-120-10HE : Front - 26mm / Rear - 12mm
MC-022-12HE : Top - 26mm / bottom - 15mm
MC-040-05HE : Top - 22mm / bottom - 12mm
MC-040-11HE : Front - 27mm / rear - 12mm
MC-060-10HE : Front - 26mm / rear - 12mm
MC-061-12HE : Front - 23mm / rear - 11mm
MC-080-13HE : Front - 26mm / rear - 15mm
MC-090-99HE : Front -12mm / rear - 26mm
MC-090-04HE : Front - 26mm / rear - 26mm
MC-090-07HE : Front - 26mm / rear - 12mm
MC-090-09HE : Front - 26mm / rear - 15mm

Stw said:

It doesn't...The ECM takes care of that....

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That's not true, may be for some bike but not for all. As permy other thread, after the installation of MWR my bike ran like absolute .... between 3-5 k rpm... Guessing it was waaay to lean. I installed the termi slip on up map without the termis, and it was a nite and day difference. Very smooth throttle response and no surging whatsoever.

BellissiMoto said:

Sorry this is so much data guys... I haven't had a chance to really clean up the grammar from the translation, or simplify it yet, but here goes...

INTRODUCTION
ADJUSTMENT KIT MWR-500

With the “Full Race Airfilter” we developed a product what achieved and proven to be unbeatable............ Fuel adjustments are necessary , fuel adjustments of each cylinder separate are necessary . With the std. ECU & Corse ECU this is not possible . Therefore we advise to use a fueldevise what makes this option possible .............

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interesting....thanks.

(No need to reply to my earlier question, STW)

So...I have Termi slips with the up map. Can I just drop this in and see benefits, or will it need additional tuning of some kind?

Got one and like it.

Will be even better after tune boy install.

ttkarp said:

So...I have Termi slips with the up map. Can I just drop this in and see benefits, or will it need additional tuning of some kind?

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Yes you can (get the HE, NOT THE R).

Though either way, you will always benefit more from having your bike tuned and a custom map made.

BellissiMoto said:

I'm saying I wouldn't consider a Panigale complete engine failure to be rare, and I am saying that some causes of Panigale engine failure can be prevented by this filter in some part.

Stw, do you even know all the ways these engines have failed? I'll name a few: cracked cases, case walls to porous - allowing oil to "weep" through the metal itself, cylinder/coolant wall failures, and about a dozen reasons that seem to culminate with oil being spewed out the exhaust in heaps.

That said, I'll probably buy another Panigale myself, even knowing this but I also won't be surprised if it sh!ts itself. I mean, look at how many S1000RR's blew themselves up, all in all, it's still a great bike.

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Ok... a few points here.. Your earlier post would lead even the most reasonable person to conclude that the customer you have that has 3 failed engines would have been spared this had he bought the MWR... I find that a statement which stretches the elasticity of truth to the utmost...

I have been reading 1199 forums for many months and I cannot recall maybe half a dozen catastrophic failures... admittedly I haven't counted them or committed them to memory...and therefore stand to be corrected... But I do feel you are being disingenuous just throwing out the engine failure statement right in the middle of this thread.... So I ask again....would these failures have been avoided by using the MWR filter???

Whoopazz said:

That's not true, may be for some bike but not for all. As permy other thread, after the installation of MWR my bike ran like absolute .... between 3-5 k rpm... Guessing it was waaay to lean. I installed the termi slip on up map without the termis, and it was a nite and day difference. Very smooth throttle response and no surging whatsoever.

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Really?? Well thats not good...to me the ECm using the reading from the 02 sensors should correct Air/Fuel ratios?? no???I thought that's what they did.... if not then I am confused..which does happen...

Mwr

BellissiMoto said:

Ohh and while I sort through old emails to find the info on the Panigale, consider this:

The owner of North Ohio Ducati didn't believe us, ordered one, put it in his 1199, and boom - 6 HP gain at the wheel on the dyno.

The Midwest Ducati regional service manager then did the same thing with the same results.

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+5 hp on the Dyno with my RACE MWR. Just add a stone screen and you are good to go!!!!!!

George Villar said:

+5 hp on the Dyno with my RACE MWR. Just add a stone screen and you are good to go!!!!!!

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You dyno'd it before and after install and got a +5?

Stw said:

Ok... a few points here.. Your earlier post would lead even the most reasonable person to conclude that the customer you have that has 3 failed engines would have been spared this had he bought the MWR... I find that a statement which stretches the elasticity of truth to the utmost...

I have been reading 1199 forums for many months and I cannot recall maybe half a dozen catastrophic failures... admittedly I haven't counted them or committed them to memory...and therefore stand to be corrected... But I do feel you are being disingenuous just throwing out the engine failure statement right in the middle of this thread.... So I ask again....would these failures have been avoided by using the MWR filter???

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3 Engine failures in less than 2500 miles - no lie, just bad luck. Bad luck can happen frequently to some people, it definitely happened to this man.

Would the MWR filter have stopped the failures? I know one it wouldn't have, the other 2 it may have by eliminating a lot of the imbalance of power from one cylinder to the next.

Seriously I welcome you to ask any engine builder if he thinks a V twin with a 9% power differential between cylinders is going to be more reliable than one with a 3 or 4 % differential.

After you get the answer that the rest of us already know, ask him what problems a 90 degree V twin with a 9% power differential might experience.



Trust me I'm not saying this is some sort of miracle cure or that you'll never have a problem in a bike with it installed. I'm simply saying you gain power AND add reliability.

BellissiMoto said:

3 Engine failures in less than 2500 miles - no lie, just bad luck. Bad luck can happen frequently to some people, it definitely happened to this man.

Would the MWR filter have stopped the failures? I know one it wouldn't have, the other 2 it may have by eliminating a lot of the imbalance of power from one cylinder to the next.

Seriously I welcome you to ask any engine builder if he thinks a V twin with a 9% power differential between cylinders is going to be more reliable than one with a 3 or 4 % differential.

After you get the answer that the rest of us already know, ask him what problems a 90 degree V twin with a 9% power differential might experience.



Trust me I'm not saying this is some sort of miracle cure or that you'll never have a problem in a bike with it installed. I'm simply saying you gain power AND add reliability.

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Ok, dumb question (literally...lol). Why did Ducati design it that way?

Anti Hero is right think of your engine as a massive air pump. Anytime you increase the air flow into your engine you will gain more ponies. A few things you would need to do so you don't run too lean or you will loose power. This is why companies develop race headers/exhaust to keep up with the massive air intake you need to be able to exit the air out of the engine just as fast so the engine can breath properly and getting the A/F ratio correct. When you see "race" on a product it is best to match the rest of the puzzle with "race" parts to balance everything out. Race intake/airbox + race air filter+ race up map +race header +race slip-on your bike would run faster and better. May not be good for the streets though try riding a WBSK Bike or even WSBK superstock bike on the streets it would be a miserable ride. Remember these Race products were meant for the track at track RPMs and track speeds unless you are one arm of course

ttkarp said:

Ok, dumb question (literally...lol). Why did Ducati design it that way?

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You push the envelope so far, things like this happen.

Sometimes you win, sometimes... not so much.


My honest opinion of the Panigale is that it handles and brakes beautifully.

Though it could lose all the electronic intrusions and babysitters, some 100 degrees of heat, and give us back our typical Ducati low end torque. That would be nice.

Stw said:

Really?? Well thats not good...to me the ECm using the reading from the 02 sensors should correct Air/Fuel ratios?? no???I thought that's what they did.... if not then I am confused..which does happen...

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O2 sensors do not function at wide open throttle, the af ratio is determined by a fixed predetermined fuel curve based on air intake measured by maf and/or map sensors combined with tps. there is not fuel trim corrections. this is why you tune it...you adjust the predetermined fuel curve based on a measured deviation from your target afr under a controlled setting, like on a dyno.

at part throttle, closed loop is in effect but a system can only adapt a certain amount, sometimes up to 20% and have short term and long term corrections, long term being a cumulative average of the short terms. I am not sure a bike has this sophisticated of a system based on the style of corrective maps offered by tuneboy. I think the operating systems for bike fuel injection are a bit primitive but that's ok. you work with what you have. anyways, if the trims can't keep up with a large swing in airflow it will not run right. you have to turn off closed loop, adjust the base curve, turn closed loop back on and the trims should be small, in the 3 or 4% range. it will run smoother and safer. tuneboy at this time does not re-enable closed loop, which for me is a deal breaker. if I wanted to run permanately in open loop with no corrections I would get a bike with a carburator.

Higgs Boson said:

O2 sensors do not function at wide open throttle, the af ratio is determined by a fixed predetermined fuel curve based on air intake measured by maf and/or map sensors combined with tps. there is not fuel trim corrections. this is why you tune it...you adjust the predetermined fuel curve based on a measured deviation from your target afr under a controlled setting, like on a dyno.

at part throttle, closed loop is in effect but a system can only adapt a certain amount, sometimes up to 20% and have short term and long term corrections, long term being a cumulative average of the short terms. I am not sure a bike has this sophisticated of a system based on the style of corrective maps offered by tuneboy. I think the operating systems for bike fuel injection are a bit primitive but that's ok. you work with what you have. anyways, if the trims can't keep up with a large swing in airflow it will not run right. you have to turn off closed loop, adjust the base curve, turn closed loop back on and the trims should be small, in the 3 or 4% range. it will run smoother and safer. tuneboy at this time does not re-enable closed loop, which for me is a deal breaker. if I wanted to run permanately in open loop with no corrections I would get a bike with a carburator.

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Nice Avatar btw. So, what do you think of Bazzaz or PC self-mapping units as opposed to other ECU flashes? (Rexxer, et al)