Is the MWR filter worth it?

The bikes run in closed loop so they are not "rich" per say at those conditions.

Lean at low throttle positions due to being in closed loop since they are running at stoich and a little bit richer than stoich can smooth things out. Stoich would be 14.2 or so for pump gas (14.7 for ethanol free gasoline).

More likely, it is due to lazy, incomplete tuning for fueling and spark timing at these throttle positions. The 1199 is a race bike for the street so I can't imagine Ducati would invest tons of time at a low throttle, low RPM scenario. The bike runs great, although rich, at a race pace.

A lot of it depends on when the bike is programmed to use closed loop as well. Certain coolant temps, ambient (air temps), throttle positions, etc etc will force the bike into open loop.

Higgs Boson said:

The bikes run in closed loop so they are not "rich" per say at those conditions.

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Thanks, Higgs...much appreciated.

oalvarez said:

"Ducatis run rich."

Could you please elaborate on this? What model are you speaking of?

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running rich is when your air/fuel ratio is too rich in fuel. you can see this if you look in your exhaust as stated you will see black soot . i clean out the insides of my termis regularly cause of the soot build up.

running lean is the opposite as more air to fuel.

Ducati 1199 has been known to run rich. so (just my opinion) the air filter lets more air in and evens this out a little making a more efficient better performing engine (supposedly)

mark419ny said:

running rich is when your air/fuel ratio is too rich in fuel. you can see this if you look in your exhaust as stated you will see black soot . i clean out the insides of my termis regularly cause of the soot build up.

running lean is the opposite as more air to fuel.

Ducati 1199 has been known to run rich. so (just my opinion) the air filter lets more air in and evens this out a little making a more efficient better performing engine (supposedly)

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thanks, I understand what the a/f ratio is, but given Higg's comments (and my own opinion) I don't believe that Ducati bikes in general (and the Panigale) run rich from the factory (here in the USA). The poor fueling at the lower rpms 3k-5k is not a function of running rich. remember, these bikes have to pass emission standards here in the US, and one way of doing it is by having them run lean.

Did somebody here say "Rich?"

Gunny Fitz said:

Did somebody here say "Rich?"

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...

I wouldn't change a thing without dyno tuning. The bike runs rich to be safe. Run lean at high rpm and that's going to kill your engine fast. Those running the slip on map with the MWR sounds like a smart move.

Have the Termignoni on the R since pick up and the MWR HE was recently installed at first service. After another 500km since then haven't noticed any change in the mixture i.e., still sooting up as Mark419ny noted and that's definitely ok with me. Have been running ethanol free 91 octane from day one. Still rough at lower rpm but otherwise perfect. Bike is a gem.

Montfort said:

Have the Termignoni on the R since pick up and the MWR HE was recently installed at first service. After another 500km since then haven't noticed any change in the mixture i.e., still sooting up as Mark419ny noted and that's definitely ok with me. Have been running ethanol free 91 octane from day one. Still rough at lower rpm but otherwise perfect. Bike is a gem.

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I'd love to see a before and after dyno with full exhaust and filter. That's probably where running this filter pays off.

Ok Ok.... I have around 450mi on my 1199r, as of now the bike is at the shop getting my full Termi exhaust put on. We are going to dyno the bike with the stock exhaust as well as the full Termi exhaust to see the difference in performance WITHOUT the provided up map (I'll post the print outs on wednesday 7/10). I will ride the bike for around 50mi as is then install the provided up map and dyno it again (full termi/up map).

Now second I've been eyeing this filter because I'm a firm believer of easy effective power I just can't decide between the "HE" and the "R" filter (help). When I hit 600mi I'll install the new air filter and dyno the bike again. Yes thats right, 4 separate dynos so we can all see whats really going on.


Dyno 1: factory 1199R set up

Dyno 2: Full Termi exhaust, NO up map, stock air filter

Dyno 3: Full Termi exhaust, provided up map, stock air filter

Dyno 4: Full Termi exhaust, provided up map, MWR air filter ("HE" or "R" TBD)

Good deal. Can't wait to see the results.
I picked up he HE filter because I didn't wanna clean it every month.

CrazyDuc said:

Ok Ok.... I have around 450mi on my 1199r, as of now the bike is at the shop getting my full Termi exhaust put on. We are going to dyno the bike with the stock exhaust as well as the full Termi exhaust to see the difference in performance WITHOUT the provided up map (I'll post the print outs on wednesday 7/10). I will ride the bike for around 50mi as is then install the provided up map and dyno it again (full termi/up map).

Now second I've been eyeing this filter because I'm a firm believer of easy effective power I just can't decide between the "HE" and the "R" filter (help). When I hit 600mi I'll install the new air filter and dyno the bike again. Yes thats right, 4 separate dynos so we can all see whats really going on.


Dyno 1: factory 1199R set up

Dyno 2: Full Termi exhaust, NO up map, stock air filter

Dyno 3: Full Termi exhaust, provided up map, stock air filter

Dyno 4: Full Termi exhaust, provided up map, MWR air filter ("HE" or "R" TBD)

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Awesome, thanks.

CrazyDuc said:

Now second I've been eyeing this filter because I'm a firm believer of easy effective power I just can't decide between the "HE" and the "R" filter (help).

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Not sure if you were asking for help with the HE vs. Race filter decision. If so, I believe most on here went with the HE version because it doesn't require as much maintenance (cleaning and re-oiling) as the race version, that's what I did.

Bellissimoto has described the difference on threads on here, and I just got an email blast from them regarding the MWR filters. Here is the info comparing the 2 from their marketing:

"2) The High Efficiency air filter, for road & race bikes, is revolutionary with its design to reduce intake noise, yet improve power and delivery. This air filter design has shown a reduction of up to 8db of intake noise compared to other sports filters, but unlike any other sports filter, with our High Efficiency air filter all inlets will get the same quantity of air, regardless of the speed of the motorcycle or wind directions . No different fuel-mappings between internal & external or front & rear cylinders is required.

3) The Full Race air filter , developed on the track. NOT on a dyno but in real life, on bikes with data loggers for the ultimate performance with new materials and designs. Protection is on the same level as the filters above, only for a shorter time. The Full Race air filter, like the High Efficiency air filter, delivers the same quantity of air, regardless of the speed of the motorcycle, wind directions, or the turbulence of the fairings. No different fuel-mappings between internal & external or front & rear cylinders is required. It makes the bike stronger but smoother , therefore it saves tires and fuel . Caution : Check your filter after each race weekend. Make sure you start each race weekend with a well oiled filter. This air filter is not developed to reduce the inletnoise."

What's the benefit of running race vs HE? HE is less maintanence Race flows more air?

gatti man said:

What's the benefit of running race vs HE? HE is less maintanence Race flows more air?

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That's my understanding. Most manufacturers offer this option. I always get the race version (I have the BMC) and just clean it several times a year. Best suited for slip-ons/fulls as they will increase flow and lean out the AFR IIRC.

TransNone13 said:

Best suited for slip-ons/fulls as they will increase flow and lean out the AFR IIRC.

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on a carburated engine, yes. on a fuel injected engine, maybe....but usually, no.

remember, a fuel injected engine will add more fuel when it senses more air. this maintains the same afr it is programmed to have. a carb will only add fuel when you twist the grip....

this is why the old saying with carb engines is "Give it some gas!" while a fuel injected engine is "Open the throttle!" You aren't really giving it gas, just opening the throttle body blade....the computer adds the fuel as necessary no matter what you are doing with the throttle.

now at wide open throttle when the computer stops using the closed loop sensors and defaults to a predetermined fuel curve then yes, it MIGHT lean out the mixture. it depends on how the ecu in question uses fuel trims....some will use the last fuel correction from closed loop and carry it over to all values in the open loop curve. if your modification adds air then the computer will be using a +value trim to add fuel, which it will carry over and add that much fuel until you let off the throttle thereby negating any leaner running. more powerful, yes since you are still moving more air, but not ideal since the engine MIGHT make more power(usually will) with a little less fuel in those conditions. same principle applies to exhaust or anything else you do to change the airflow amounts or characteristics.

JeffD said:

design to reduce intake noise, yet improve power and delivery. This air filter design has shown a reduction of up to 8db of intake noise compared to other sports filters.[/B]"

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So... does this mean the HE filter is actually quieter than stock, or just "other sports filters"? So you have to go to the high maintenance race filter to get the nice intake howl?

transdesigner said:

So... does this mean the HE filter is actually quieter than stock, or just "other sports filters"? So you have to go to the high maintenance race filter to get the nice intake howl?

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I was a bit confused about this as well. Several other owners have reported a louder intake snarl after the HE install, yet perhaps this is the placebo effect manifested. I really want to think that the throttle response is also improved and a better midrange hit is also evident after my HE install, but again, without empirical testing this could simply be a case of wishful thinking. In terms of mods though, this one is relatively cheap for such satisfaction - warranted or not.

Looking forward to CrazyDuc's dyno runs for some real insight!

JeffD said:

I was a bit confused about this as well. Several other owners have reported a louder intake snarl after the HE install, yet perhaps this is the placebo effect manifested. I really want to think that the throttle response is also improved and a better midrange hit is also evident after my HE install, but again, without empirical testing this could simply be a case of wishful thinking. In terms of mods though, this one is relatively cheap for such satisfaction - warranted or not.

Looking forward to CrazyDuc's dyno runs for some real insight!

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I've noticed the same thing on mine.

Interesting... a claimed 8db noise reduction versus other filters and it's still louder than stock...seems contradictory. 8db is really a huge number from just an air filter change, and almost harder to swallow than the +6hp gain.