July 2013 Cycle World - BMWHP4 vs 1199R

RedScare · Jun 11, 2013

Kuroshio said:
showing ppl I can buy what they can't afford....

...as a Verizon tech

thanks for teh chuckle.

jjsC6 · Jun 11, 2013

Steve B said:
Just adding a data point; July RoadRacing World mag is out and has a literbike rematch in it. They have last year's winner, the S1KRR (BMW couldn't get them an HP4 to test) against the 1199R, the MV F4 RR plus the RSV4 Factory and Kawi (the last two because they blew up last year). Honda, Yamaha and Suzuki were left out since they lost last year and hadn't had any updates. Same format; a one-day track-only shootout, with back to back dyno testing, weights and measures, etc. They ran control Dunlop KR448/449 slicks on all of them, including the Pani.

The Pani R was the lightest by a stretch at 418lbs full of fuel with the full Termi system mounted, versus 470 for the MV, 466 for the Ape, 461 for the BMW and 442 for the Kawi. It also made the most horsepower and torque (184/87) on their Dynojet 250i. The BMW made 178/75, followed by the MV at173/73, the Ape at 160/74 and the Kawi at 157/71.

End result, the BMW still came out on top, followed by the Kawasaki, the Pani R, The Ape and the F4 RR. Refinement and ease of use/rideability was the thing that did it for the top two, while lack thereof and/or weight was the downfall of the Ape and MV. RRW testers Jeremy Toye and Chris Ulrich hit the Pani hardest on unstable handling in corners and hinted it didn't get along with the Dunlop slicks well on the given settings, but they didn't mention trying much in the way of different setup, ala swingarm pivot settings, ride heights, etc. Setups were done by the manufacturers on all the bikes in the test after being given the track and tire combo that would be used. They loved how fast the R was, but suggested its hard-hitting nature vs the wider, smoother power curves of the 4's as the cause of some of the mid-corner chassis issues.

Kind of a shame they limit their tests to one-day shootouts since they can't work out setup issues very well due to time limitations, but interesting nonetheless. Have to agree with them on the power delivery; I don't really care about more top end but would cough up come dough for a torque curve without that big hole in the middle; seen a lot of dyno charts but not one yet that solves that.

All said though, I've had my Pani for a year, and like it more now than the first month I had it.

Makes me glad I don't road race my Panigale. Sort of like a sticker my brother used to have on his wall...."being single is never having to know how many faults you have".

JeffD · Jun 11, 2013

@ Steve B - Thanks for the synopsis. I hadn't read it yet but I couldn't wait and just went ahead and read your post.

Roadracing World is about the only review I take seriously when I want to "bench race" bikes with fellow riders. I've ridden on-track with Chris Ulrich and he is incredible. He and Jeremy Toye are some of the only "moto-journalists" to be able to push bikes to their absolute limit.

Of course, I'll never have those skills so practically it doesn't mean so much, but it is nice to know how the bikes compare when ridden to their fullest capabilities.

As blazeone said, what they described as "detractors" about the Pani (agility that borders on instability and a ferocious power delivery in particular) are what make it "exciting" to me and main reasons why I chose it over any bike I considered.

gatti man · Jun 11, 2013

jjsC6 said:
Makes me glad I don't road race my Panigale. Sort of like a sticker my brother used to have on his wall...."being single is never having to know how many faults you have".

You are missing out. Racing the 1199s is the only way I truly and fully enjoy it. The rest is just foreplay.

XIXCIX · Jun 11, 2013

Kuroshio said:
Speaking as a HP4 "carbon" owner, the 1199R is well within my budget. So according to your stipulations, I can "diss" if I want. But I won't.

Fact of the matter is the reviewers are talking about performance characteristics you prolly can't even feel, let alone control. Least a guy like me is honest I'd be a red smear anywhere at -7 Slick mode on my HP4. So the reviews are just validation that you made the right choice.

I love my bike. The Panigale doesn't maie me want it like the 1st sight of a s1k did. All buying one would do for ME (meaning this doesn't apply to anyone except me) is complete the shallow goal of showing ppl I can buy what they can't afford. If that was the goal, I'd just tell ppl how much the watch I wear to work as a Verizon tech costs (hint: it's a Rado)

Kuroshio · Jun 11, 2013

RedScare said:
thanks for teh chuckle.

Um, you realize that many of us lowly, blue collar telephone guys make 6 figures right?

XIXCIX · Jun 11, 2013

Kuroshio said:
Um, you realize that many of us lowly, blue collar telephone guys make 6 figures right?

Telling a forum about your, rado, BMW bike and six figure salary, all under the guise of not wanting show people what they can't afford you can....

You're doing a pretty good job of telling everyone....

Jariva · Jun 11, 2013

Kuroshio said:
I love my bike. The Panigale doesn't maie me want it like the 1st sight of a s1k did. All buying one would do for ME (meaning this doesn't apply to anyone except me) is complete the shallow goal of showing ppl I can buy what they can't afford. If that was the goal, I'd just tell ppl how much the watch I wear to work as a Verizon tech costs (hint: it's a Rado)

Why are you here?

2013RedSabs · Jun 11, 2013

Kuroshio said:
I love my bike. The Panigale doesn't maie me want it like the 1st sight of a s1k did. All buying one would do for ME (meaning this doesn't apply to anyone except me) is complete the shallow goal of showing ppl I can buy what they can't afford. If that was the goal, I'd just tell ppl how much the watch I wear to work as a Verizon tech costs (hint: it's a Rado)

No need to be insecure about your likes or your income here.

Yesterday a family in a station wagon stopped in front of my bike at the local fivebucks. The "Dad" jumped out and ran around his car, while blocking the lane just to take a picture of the bike! The whole while his wife was giggling with the kids as she watched her husband acting like a kid himself. I could really care less how much money they make, and they didn't even see the "shallow owner" to ask him if he was a Verizon Manager who wears a Brietling. "Watching" (ahem) this happen as I drank my coffee was PRICELESS.

Maybe one day the same will happen to your BMW and you will share the love with the rest of us. Until then, have a nice "time" with the things you love.

gnance · Jun 11, 2013

Jariva said:
Why are you here?

Probably cause he is lusting after the panigale R

wilkson · Jun 11, 2013

Is a Rado better than a Rolex ?

XIXCIX · Jun 11, 2013

wilkson said:
Is a Rado better than a Rolex ?

Personal preference

littlejohn · Jun 12, 2013

wilkson said:
Is a Rado better than a Rolex ?

It's a bit like saying is BMW better than Ducati.
It doesn't really matter because everyone knows Rolex just as everyone knows Ducati.
As for the small group of discerning enthusiasts, it will debated ad-nauseam which is better than the other..

EvoL · Jun 12, 2013

Since when is Rado even in the same sentence as Rolex? Don't Rados have batteries?

transdesigner · Jun 12, 2013

EvoL said:
Since when is Rado even in the same sentence as Rolex? Don't Rados have batteries?

They shouldn't be in the same sentence... you can get a Rado for under a grand. Your avg Rolex is more like 10 grand. It's more like comparing a BMW to a Rolls Royce... not even close.

Phl · Jun 12, 2013

then is a fake rolex better than a fake breitling?

'cuz if yer not racing these whipz yer foolin yaself

littlejohn · Jun 12, 2013

EvoL said:
Since when is Rado even in the same sentence as Rolex? Don't Rados have batteries?

transdesigner said:
They shouldn't be in the same sentence... you can get a Rado for under a grand. Your avg Rolex is more like 10 grand. It's more like comparing a BMW to a Rolls Royce... not even close.

lol.. trying not to be pretentious. We were humouring the poor guy..

Having said that.. I'm sure there would be overlap somewhere between the two. The Hyperchrome is quite nice and can go head to head with a rolex.

Capt CF · Jun 12, 2013

Great, we can fight about who has the nicest watch in addition to who has the nicest bike. Maybe next we can do houses and yachts.

littlejohn · Jun 12, 2013

Capt CF said:
Great, we can fight about who has the nicest watch in addition to who has the nicest bike. Maybe next we can do houses and yachts.

hahahaha..

transdesigner · Jun 12, 2013

Capt CF said:
Great, we can fight about who has the nicest watch in addition to who has the nicest bike. Maybe next we can do houses and yachts.

I'm going to go back to a point I made somewhere else about how we shouldn't have to argue at all about which bike is the nicest on a DUCATI 1199 forum...

As Jariva said, if you don't like it... "why are you here?" This isn't a general motorcycle forum or even a sportbike forum, which they do have, and the argument about nicest bike belongs there. I like to see these comparisons too, but they aren't going to change the fact that I absolutely love riding the 1199 better, and shouldn't have to defend that here. This is a forum for Ducati enthusiasts, or at least the name of the forum would imply that... I'm not going to go onto the BMW or Aprilia forums and start making statements about why I think the Ducati is better, because I know the responses I'll get, and knowing that, but posting there anyway, is boarderline trolling IMO

July 2013 Cycle World - BMWHP4 vs 1199R

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