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Gentlemen,
i know Gatti and I had a bit of a rumble on the Pro pipe topic and that soon there were sides having a go at each other. And that burrrying the hatchet seemed hard. Whether that was spill over from other threads or not, i don't know. Looking back it seems that a lot of it has to do with form over matter..
If there was anything to get over in the first place, i did get over it and so perhaps , if i can, most of us should be able to, no?
so why don't we all make up and be friends again, no?
Ok, my thoughts on the downshifting and the remarks
It all comes down to the braking. And the weight the brakes have to stop. And how to do both... without wanting to point all the time to how special this bike is, it cannot be ignored that a full WSBK brake setup ( GP 19x18 master, 108 monoblocs, Z4 pads and 6MM sbk disks) is something that takes getting used to. And , let's be honest, will never ever be used by to the full of its capability by me
At Zolder ( much more a stop and go track) i did get to using them harder and my back and arms were stiff for 3 days. Once they bite, there really is no letting go. lap after lap after lap.. the bike only weighing 178 kgs in race trim ( half tank ) makes that setup even more brutal. and the 95/97 kgs sitting on top undergoing some decent G's in the process, harder to get stopped in sync.
My problem is that i ride not hard enough to use them to the tilt and if i would i'm not sure i'd be able to handle them. Again, size and weight come into play when stopping the whole lot.
So to downshifting. Frankly i fully admit to the fact that i roll off way to early. Mainly because finding the very last yard to brake is not my priority - if it ever will be. And , in many occasions, because i m not alone in the braking area and have to be mindful of other riders. As i'm not a fixed regular of fast group in the morning yet, many of these riders are still finding their way around on their bike and track. This also impairs lines btw..
If the friends i ride with ( 2:41 - 2:47 = race pace leaque ) do like something on my 'riding style' it is that it is smooth and fluent. to me, not upsetting the bike is part of that. And why i'm not so taken by the new setup as - perhaps all and only in my mind - she got more wiggly up front.
Just look at Neil Hodgson go round on the Donington vid and it seems he's on rails on one long sweeping line with hardly any hick ups... masterfull..
But I invite anyone to hit a 2:52 the first ever day out at Spa and this bike. And hit 2:54 the first session of this day. You don't get those with horrendous lines. What is true though is that by getting faster, one uses more of the track, as the speed just carries you wider and deeper into the corners.
To me : one of the horrendous dangers of riding with novice group is that they will actually steer to get on the good lines event though their speed asks for a different one. As lines change with speed, there is absolutely no need for them to be on 200kph lines when they're doing 100. So, heading for corners, mind that there will be no room left to go by the time you get there.
ok , back to the subject
What has this to do with downshifting? It is clear that tech has evolved tremendously the last 5 years with the age of electronics. Slipper clutches add a lot, abs adds a lot, brake systems shorten time while on the brakes. So combine the slipper clutch, EBC and ABS 2 ( ABS 2 spreads brake power over front and rear to align wheels) and i think we must all think no longer off not flip throttling between shifts not being bad/wrong downshifting technique but only the new way to downshift.
Just as the QS is the new way to upshift. Full throttle, tick and done. Cut the throttle here and it won't upshift, something i still have to get used to. But you can still use the clutch anytime you shift. So riding techniques change to.
We're quit intense about all this and we do talk ridetech most of the day when not riding. Again, i m lucky to do so with people who know. Like the record holder for Spa at 2:26!! (who did a 2:29 on a nightsession - ! ) This is where i get to hear stuff like that very fast riders going through Radillon and Blanchimont 2 ( second kink) just jam the gears back 1 gear to go up Radillon or through Blanchimont full whack. just kick that gearbox… no mention of flipthrottling here either... as it would just unsettle the bike and at those speeds they just know they would go off as it just extends the period when the bike is without traction and the suspension uncompressed and so unstable. Wanna know how it feels : Just try going through a corner between gears…
Does this make my shifting procedure perfect? far from. This is where i still have a long way to go. Keeping on full throttle as long as possible and then whacking the brakes full tilt.. It's something i eventuelly will do, but it is not a first priority.
Frankly, i did make a point of it in Zolder a couple of times and to be honest, it is so brutal there is simply no time enough to do all the flipping. As it will complicate things badly and give opportunity to do more damage to your braking procedure than is good for you. Quit simply, it is just: brake, tick tick tick, turn in, let go... it seems that is what the bike is made to do..
I sure as hell would not like to live the moment when coming from a 260+ kph going deep on the brakes, i would upset the braking by messing up the flipshifting as i can't do it quick enough. the consequences of upsetting the frame and suspension like this could be bad bad bad, very bad.
Im sure getting on a good 916 or 888 would get me back to flipthrottling in a second though…
i know Gatti and I had a bit of a rumble on the Pro pipe topic and that soon there were sides having a go at each other. And that burrrying the hatchet seemed hard. Whether that was spill over from other threads or not, i don't know. Looking back it seems that a lot of it has to do with form over matter..
If there was anything to get over in the first place, i did get over it and so perhaps , if i can, most of us should be able to, no?
so why don't we all make up and be friends again, no?
Ok, my thoughts on the downshifting and the remarks
It all comes down to the braking. And the weight the brakes have to stop. And how to do both... without wanting to point all the time to how special this bike is, it cannot be ignored that a full WSBK brake setup ( GP 19x18 master, 108 monoblocs, Z4 pads and 6MM sbk disks) is something that takes getting used to. And , let's be honest, will never ever be used by to the full of its capability by me
At Zolder ( much more a stop and go track) i did get to using them harder and my back and arms were stiff for 3 days. Once they bite, there really is no letting go. lap after lap after lap.. the bike only weighing 178 kgs in race trim ( half tank ) makes that setup even more brutal. and the 95/97 kgs sitting on top undergoing some decent G's in the process, harder to get stopped in sync.
My problem is that i ride not hard enough to use them to the tilt and if i would i'm not sure i'd be able to handle them. Again, size and weight come into play when stopping the whole lot.
So to downshifting. Frankly i fully admit to the fact that i roll off way to early. Mainly because finding the very last yard to brake is not my priority - if it ever will be. And , in many occasions, because i m not alone in the braking area and have to be mindful of other riders. As i'm not a fixed regular of fast group in the morning yet, many of these riders are still finding their way around on their bike and track. This also impairs lines btw..
If the friends i ride with ( 2:41 - 2:47 = race pace leaque ) do like something on my 'riding style' it is that it is smooth and fluent. to me, not upsetting the bike is part of that. And why i'm not so taken by the new setup as - perhaps all and only in my mind - she got more wiggly up front.
Just look at Neil Hodgson go round on the Donington vid and it seems he's on rails on one long sweeping line with hardly any hick ups... masterfull..
But I invite anyone to hit a 2:52 the first ever day out at Spa and this bike. And hit 2:54 the first session of this day. You don't get those with horrendous lines. What is true though is that by getting faster, one uses more of the track, as the speed just carries you wider and deeper into the corners.
To me : one of the horrendous dangers of riding with novice group is that they will actually steer to get on the good lines event though their speed asks for a different one. As lines change with speed, there is absolutely no need for them to be on 200kph lines when they're doing 100. So, heading for corners, mind that there will be no room left to go by the time you get there.
ok , back to the subject
What has this to do with downshifting? It is clear that tech has evolved tremendously the last 5 years with the age of electronics. Slipper clutches add a lot, abs adds a lot, brake systems shorten time while on the brakes. So combine the slipper clutch, EBC and ABS 2 ( ABS 2 spreads brake power over front and rear to align wheels) and i think we must all think no longer off not flip throttling between shifts not being bad/wrong downshifting technique but only the new way to downshift.
Just as the QS is the new way to upshift. Full throttle, tick and done. Cut the throttle here and it won't upshift, something i still have to get used to. But you can still use the clutch anytime you shift. So riding techniques change to.
We're quit intense about all this and we do talk ridetech most of the day when not riding. Again, i m lucky to do so with people who know. Like the record holder for Spa at 2:26!! (who did a 2:29 on a nightsession - ! ) This is where i get to hear stuff like that very fast riders going through Radillon and Blanchimont 2 ( second kink) just jam the gears back 1 gear to go up Radillon or through Blanchimont full whack. just kick that gearbox… no mention of flipthrottling here either... as it would just unsettle the bike and at those speeds they just know they would go off as it just extends the period when the bike is without traction and the suspension uncompressed and so unstable. Wanna know how it feels : Just try going through a corner between gears…
Does this make my shifting procedure perfect? far from. This is where i still have a long way to go. Keeping on full throttle as long as possible and then whacking the brakes full tilt.. It's something i eventuelly will do, but it is not a first priority.
Frankly, i did make a point of it in Zolder a couple of times and to be honest, it is so brutal there is simply no time enough to do all the flipping. As it will complicate things badly and give opportunity to do more damage to your braking procedure than is good for you. Quit simply, it is just: brake, tick tick tick, turn in, let go... it seems that is what the bike is made to do..
I sure as hell would not like to live the moment when coming from a 260+ kph going deep on the brakes, i would upset the braking by messing up the flipshifting as i can't do it quick enough. the consequences of upsetting the frame and suspension like this could be bad bad bad, very bad.
Im sure getting on a good 916 or 888 would get me back to flipthrottling in a second though…
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I wore good gear that did a good job. SR1 helmet that is light. MJK leathers. quit reputable Dutch make and 19 year old Daytona boots currently named evoII ... bizarrely they got a bit bitten out. and gloves : Held... all was but fine.. didn't feel a thing when sliding.. just bruised 1 finger to be blue.. and a bit af a stif knee.. i think i tumbled twice and must have gone about 45 meters ..
wow , pritty heroic now i write it down.... no, plain stupid...
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Man you are racing at Spa!!! Spa! Eau Rouge, a corner I've only ever seen on TV.
I love hearing Europeans talking glibly about Spa, Assen, Nurburgring, Le Mans - you are very very lucky indeed to be in the heart of racing.
I know many guys that would be prepared to endure a low-side just to be able to track the bike there or any of those amazing, legendary circuits!
My nearest world class circuit is 5,000km away at Philip Island and I will get there one day soon. Until then we plug away at our local circuits
Regardless, sorry to see you go down.
Wafa, everytime i ride up to one , i fully fully realise how spoiled we are.. when people ask me where i live, i say : in the city with the nicest suburbs in the world: Paris, London, Amsterdam, Berlin.... all 2 hours away... same goes for tracks : Spa, Assen, ZOlder, Nurburgring, Dijon, Brands, just half a day away...
wouldn't mind a go at P Island though !
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Ducati 1199 Panigale running Pro-Shift GP Winning PS3 "Closed Loop" Semi-Automatic Gearshift System - YouTube
just ot add some info : some true semi automatic shifting... this i as far as it will go ..
just ot add some info : some true semi automatic shifting... this i as far as it will go ..
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Dont know yet .. Looking for date and organisation .. Seems hardrr to find than in uk
you know any ? Tx
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Kope,
I am very sorry about the bike but am glad to see you are doing well following this off. Quick question, I could not tell from the video whether you were running any engine/frame sliders on your bike. It seems something like the T-Rex or Sato kit could have helped with minimizing the amount of damage incurred in this type of crash.
I am very sorry about the bike but am glad to see you are doing well following this off. Quick question, I could not tell from the video whether you were running any engine/frame sliders on your bike. It seems something like the T-Rex or Sato kit could have helped with minimizing the amount of damage incurred in this type of crash.
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i m def looking for some now ! Most of the damage was done by the gravel though .. i'll take a pic of it but the Ducati carbon clutchcover was gone . slid ride through it.. mere for optical aspects i guess... i had another one made but hadn't mpicked it up yet... so now the clutch cover needs replacement.... well , we do learn all the time don't we... frankly i thougth it was ugly... LOL
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Have you looked at getting the carbon sub frame? I believe bellisimoto sells it. Pretty trick piece of kit and since you are replacing body work its the perfect time.
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Gatti, i did look at that and it was on the wish list for next year ... i'm not sure on adding stuctural stuff that is more of a trial and error thing... i remember asking for 100kg weight tolerances and all the lines went quit... I wouldn't want to be the one manufacturor that made the frame that snapped ! ..and less the guy that sat on it when it snapped .. . that little slide is eating in the 2014 budget that was already eaten in ... full carbon fairing and tank , getting it painted and then 20 nitbits ( clip ons, brake folders .... cluchtcover magnesium and carbon .... ) that need replacing ..... i ve had cheaper deligths... hope to get the tank repaired...
full carbon fairing and tank , getting it painted and then 20 nitbits ( clip ons, brake folders .... cluchtcover magnesium and carbon .... ) that need replacing ..... i ve had cheaper deligths... hope to get the tank repaired...
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I definitely understand not installing a slider kit to maintain optimum aesthetics; I've actually been contemplating doing this on mine as well. However, once I start tracking the bike there's no question I will be installing something. Keep us updated with whatever you decide ... I'm looking forward to seeing you rebuild this bike and getting her back in action where she's happiest.
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The sato slider actually looks really good on the bike. I'm really happy with it.
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Gravel can be a prick . The gravel at Phillip island is really course and running your bike though there it comes put like bring through a cheese grateor .
I believe they make it so heavy to stop the cars at high speed but it made a mess of my Aprilia .
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Yeah, I don't think Sato has an answer for that.
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