MCN : 899 best sportsbike out there !

outhouse said:

Are you saying I should switch my 1199 to "195 hi" instead of low

Second gears usable power is somewhat similar, were not hitting a 1/4 mile in second, nor is it from a dead stop so you can throw that half a second difference out the window for everyday canyon carving.

The 1199 does have more pull but the end results are probably so very close most wont see a major difference. They both hit 100 at the top of second.


I am faster in the tight stuff then the 848 but Id place that on the better suspension larger rear tire giving me confidence to use the added torque more effectively.

The more comfortable you are on a bike the more juice youll throw at it.


I understand there are good reasons why some course records are set with midsized bikes, Im just loving the hell out of this one.

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I'm saying that regardless of the selected gear for the comparison, if you pin the throttle on each of these bikes you will immediately feel a substantial difference in performance between the two. The closer you get to each bike's peak power rpm and the longer the duration that each bike is able to run in this rpm range, the more disinguishable this difference becomes.

Just to note, I am also of the opinion that the 1199 is fine on the street, but I am happy to see Ducati produce a viable alternative for those who prefer to ride something a little more well-mannered. Personally, I love the 1199's mannerisms; it has a way of commanding your attention and delivering a visceral experience unlike any other sportbike I've owned, so I wouldn't necessarily elect to purchase anything attempting to dilute these endorphin inciting characteristics, but I can certainly see how some would feel more comfortable riding something slightly less demanding.

Duck41 said:

I'm saying that regardless of the selected gear for the comparison, if you pin the throttle on each of these bikes you will immediately feel a substantial difference in performance between the two. The closer you get to each bike's peak power rpm and the longer the duration that each bike is able to run in this rpm range, the more disinguishable this difference becomes.

Just to note, I am also of the opinion that the 1199 is fine on the street, but I am happy to see Ducati produce a viable alternative for those who prefer to ride something a little more well-mannered. Personally, I love the 1199's mannerisms; it has a way of commanding your attention and delivering a visceral experience unlike any other sportbike I've owned, so I wouldn't necessarily elect to purchase anything attempting to dilute these endorphin inciting characteristics, but I can certainly see how some would feel more comfortable riding something slightly less demanding.

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I thought the 848 evo was a awesome bike, and it was. I only had a few minor dislikes, and every one of those was addressed on the 1199.

The good thing was, switching to the 1199 was a natural progression and it didn't take a week and I was faster then I ever was on the 848. I know the 899 would have addressed all but one, I wished I had more power.

899 will be damn fine machine, for the money however it would be a tough choice.

Here is a 2:04 around Thunderhill I did on Sunday on the 1199R. That's not exactly pro level, but it was my first time there and I was a bit sick. I was more than keeping up in A group and getting after it though.

The point: The majority of my throttle opening is between 50 and 75%, except for when I gave it the berries down the front straight. I apex turn 15 at 95 mph in third gear, and if you give it too much, it will wheelie to the sky. If I had an 899 with the R's sweet suspension setup and slicks, I could do this lap easily with less power, and would have a second or two to make up from the straight. But I'm not complaining, it's nice to have it when you need to go around someone Next trip, I want to crack 2:00.

outhouse said:

Its all horsepucky to sell smaller bikes.


Don't kid yourself. On the street the 1199 works very very well.

The guy in the vid was just SELLING a small bike, my 1199 doesn't ride me, I ride it.

Under 100mph in first and second my 848 and 1199 are very very close in performance. This is not opinion, it is fact.


The only difference really is how hard the 1199 pulls in third over the 1199. That's when the extra torque and HP are visible.

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Well that was my point, in the twisties here I never approach 100, these are hairpin turns many with posted speed limits of 15-25 mph. I never see third, and I really only see second because I need to get out of first to hold a smooth throttle. don't get me wrong, love the power. But I can see how the gearing of a middleweight might be better for what I do, that's all. The gearing for these liter bikes is meant for speeds I clearly will never get to.

outhouse said:

How many of us ride around in "wet mode" cutting canyons because the 1199 has way too much power?


Im wanting to kick sport mode up to 195 hi

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It's not that it's too powerful. It is that with that much power it is geared, obviously, differently for high top speeds, so riding twisties in the 30-50 mph zone, while certainly doable, really not the high point of the bike, but may be with an 899. Didn't notice the issue as much with RSV4 as its 1st gear was much smoother to ride in. And 899 or similar might have all the power you need for such riding (and by all you need, I mean significantly more than you still need, which I would always want), and geared to be a lower speeds with higher rpms. Not sure why that is a controversial statement.

The real comparison to me would be that this is the same price point as an Aprilia RSV4R APRC ABS. All the technology of the 899 (though not the 1199), and as a V4 rides very smooth and handles low speeds well. So while I like the idea of the 899 and getting a smaller bike for the twisties, I'd have a REAL hard time getting it over the smooth aprilia for the same money. Hmmmm.

When in reality I HAVE to keep my Tri, I mean I have the matchig helmet.

Denver Rick said:

The real comparison to me would be that this is the same price point as an Aprilia RSV4R APRC ABS. All the technology of the 899 (though not the 1199), and as a V4 rides very smooth and handles low speeds well. So while I like the idea of the 899 and getting a smaller bike for the twisties, I'd have a REAL hard time getting it over the smooth aprilia for the same money. Hmmmm.

When in reality I HAVE to keep my Tri, I mean I have the matchig helmet.

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Did you try altering the gearing at all???

Stw said:

Did you try altering the gearing at all???

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Not yet. And at the low speeds that I find the issue at, I don't think it would make much difference. Maybe, but an expensive test. And I've certainly learned to deal with it. Just that this review makes me question why I really need a liter bike when my bike currently hardly EVER sees third gear, and rarely upper band of 2nd. Just may be a waste of power and money. When I ride my wife's 675R it is simply SO much easier to ride, and can really work the higher revs when riding. I have to have some wide open spaces to get into the upper band on the Pani, even just in first. The flip side to that is that I feel like I'm changing gears ALL the time on the 675. I guess the grass is always greener. Well, her grass cost a fraction of the Pani, I guess that is really what's at issue.

Denver Rick said:

Not yet. And at the low speeds that I find the issue at, I don't think it would make much difference. Maybe, but an expensive test. And I've certainly learned to deal with it. Just that this review makes me question why I really need a liter bike when my bike currently hardly EVER sees third gear, and rarely upper band of 2nd. Just may be a waste of power and money. When I ride my wife's 675R it is simply SO much easier to ride, and can really work the higher revs when riding. I have to have some wide open spaces to get into the upper band on the Pani, even just in first. The flip side to that is that I feel like I'm changing gears ALL the time on the 675. I guess the grass is always greener. Well, her grass cost a fraction of the Pani, I guess that is really what's at issue.

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In a way you have answered your concerns/frustrations.... there is no perfect bike for all occasions... I found lowering the gearing helped make the bike more "real world rideable"....Changing the front sprocket is not an expensive job and may well improve your experience???

Ive never found any Ducati SS that does well being rode like a mule.

Thoroughbreds need to be stood on.


Wouldn't buy one to cruise ever, if you cant get in the powerband in second, you may want to find a Monster and ditch the SS altogether.


The 899 will surely do 100 at the top of second, as the 1199 does, as the 848 does.

Denver Rick said:

Not yet. And at the low speeds that I find the issue at, I don't think it would make much difference. Maybe, but an expensive test. And I've certainly learned to deal with it. Just that this review makes me question why I really need a liter bike when my bike currently hardly EVER sees third gear, and rarely upper band of 2nd. Just may be a waste of power and money. When I ride my wife's 675R it is simply SO much easier to ride, and can really work the higher revs when riding. I have to have some wide open spaces to get into the upper band on the Pani, even just in first. The flip side to that is that I feel like I'm changing gears ALL the time on the 675. I guess the grass is always greener. Well, her grass cost a fraction of the Pani, I guess that is really what's at issue.

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That's the issue. You can ride the 899 with faster corner speed. That means that the liter bike will start losing ground to the smaller bike when technical areas pop up. Sure, freeway and straights, the liter bike will gain the edge and even pull ahead. But the corner speed is where it is at. Corners are for a majority, drive corners. Not braking corners for example. Thus, being able to start the drive sooner leads to an edge overall. That's why a bike with 60 plus less HP can run only a couple of seconds a lap slower than a liter bike.

But that is VERY capable riders running against themselves. If I take an average street rider and place them on an 1199 on a semi technical track, they will do better with the 899. They cannot ride a bike on the edge mid corner and carry the needed speed. They can ham fist the throttle like anyone else can and pull the trigger on the straights. But the world isn't straight...

Again, both bikes are a blast. Both handle great, both do things well. But the 1199 is a bike that cannot be opened up as much as the 899 can in certain areas. That is usually on the drive out. Mid corner speed is essential to great drive and the 1199 in average hands isn't going to do that as well as a smaller machine...

It's going to be a great bike and bridge the gap between 600 and liter bike.

Why does an 899 have better corner speed than an 1199?

TricoloreSF said:

Why does an 899 have better corner speed than an 1199?

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Exactly

The 1199 is 11lbs lighter with more contact on the rear tire to handle the higher corner speed, and all the while being more flickable due to its lighter weight.

Even if it is by a small margin, that and the extra torque makes for a quicker drive out of the corner.

Can't we just like the 899 for what it is?

At losail I watched 250cc 80 hp bikes do 2:07s. Motogp bikes with 230hp we doing 1:55s with the best of the best riding them. The logic there is you need 150 more HP to drop 12 seconds. Oh yeah and about a million more Euros...lol.

The 899 will be buttery smooth and probably a blast to ride. Leave it at that.

Some people assume smaller displacement = lighter bike = higher corner speeds.

But, as already stated, the 1199 is the lighter choice. 899 maybe more fun to ride in many situations. This is true as you go down the size chart for me. I have more fun on a 2009 Aprilia RS125 with approximately 25 HP as long as the roads are twisty. I get to ring it's little neck on every corner and straight. Short wheelbase helps a lot too.

I'm glad they sell the 899 even if I'm not gonna rush out and buy one.

Thamer said:

Can't we just like the 899 for what it is?

At losail I watched 250cc 80 hp bikes do 2:07s. Motogp bikes with 230hp we doing 1:55s with the best of the best riding them. The logic there is you need 150 more HP to drop 12 seconds. Oh yeah and about a million more Euros...lol.

The 899 will be buttery smooth and probably a blast to ride. Leave it at that.

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The 899 will be a awesome bike.

Its the price point that kills it for me. And after a few years youll want the 1199.

Buy a 899 and in the back of your mind the 1199 will always be tugging

The 899 is a good chick bike

EvoL said:

The 899 is a good chick bike

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I prefer bad chicks....

outhouse said:

Exactly

The 1199 is 11lbs lighter with more contact on the rear tire to handle the higher corner speed, and all the while being more flickable due to its lighter weight.

Even if it is by a small margin, that and the extra torque makes for a quicker drive out of the corner.

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The 1199 can corner faster than an 899, huh? The corner speed is how fast you carry the speed THROUGH the corner. Liter bikes with the gobs of power they have cannot get on the throttle as fast. Yes, they have more power, but they cannot initiate that power as fast as a smaller bike can. Think of it this way... Twist the throttle to the stops on a 200 hp bike and then do it on a Ninja 300. The 300 will be to the stops with no issue in chassis change. The 200hp bike? Rear wheel spin, chassis being upset, etc. All things that cause the bike to be managed via the throttle moreso. Thus, a bit slower corner speed.

Why do you think with the example that you even used where you were beating up on big bikes with the 848 was happening? You can brake sometimes a bit later due to the top speed differences, but the corner speed is higher on the smaller and less powerful bike.

Make sense? The smaller the power, the easier to get the speed up faster. The DRIVE out is something that the big bike can start to regain the advantage.

Again... Entry, mid and exit are all things that work together in a turn. Lighter bike can get in faster and deeper and carry higher mid turn speed...

When you see at the races where a 600 is running 2 seconds a lap slower than a superbike, that is due to straights and exit drive to a degree. But what keeps that smaller bike so close is the ability to carry higher corner speed and work faster in the segments that are more technical.

turnone said:

Some people assume smaller displacement = lighter bike = higher corner speeds.

But, as already stated, the 1199 is the lighter choice. 899 maybe more fun to ride in many situations. This is true as you go down the size chart for me. I have more fun on a 2009 Aprilia RS125 with approximately 25 HP as long as the roads are twisty. I get to ring it's little neck on every corner and straight. Short wheelbase helps a lot too.

I'm glad they sell the 899 even if I'm not gonna rush out and buy one.

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The issue isn't the weight. The lighter 1199 is lighter, but has a lot more hp that cannot be triggered as quickly as the smaller bike.