MotoGP 2023

I’m cheering less complaining on your part. Just go find something else to do with your time if it makes you that unhappy.

What 750's wouldn't be enough? The ducati's must be making 120 ft/lbs at the power peak, so 130+ ft/lb's at the torque peak. You try hanging onto 125 ft/lbs for 40 minutes. I can fix the honda's with one test day. Let them run pirelli's.

baggerman said:

You try hanging onto 125 ft/lbs for 40 minutes.

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Take a professional at the top level of their sport and suggest randoms in an internet form they do that thing. I mean, hit a homerun against a major league pitcher. If you want 750s like that's the solution, to a problem that doesn't really exist, just watch Moto2.

Moto 2 are triumphs 3's. What 120 HP? A 750 gp motor would make 250 HP (at least a 750 ducati would). Or blown 350's. Look at all the gp motor configurations over the years. It's about clever development ultimately. The engineering is the thing. 350 cc direct injected 2 strokes. One of the things I actually remember from race school (a long time ago) is the lag in vision. You aren't where you see you are. Big lag at 225.

I doubt any of those are realistic things for MotoGP. They're already talking sustainable fuels and tires. I don't see 2 strokes in the future.

bp_SFV4 said:

I’m cheering less complaining on your part. Just go find something else to do with your time if it makes you that unhappy.

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My work means that Ive had to deal with a lot dunning kruger types so it's nothing to have to put up with your self righteous drivel, how about stop whingeing and put me on ignore?

Hey bp this might help Tech Talk - Pump it up, pump it down - Oxley Bom MotoGP podcast

All about ride height and clever engineers

I thought you wanted me to ignore you? Now you're giving me a podcast assignment? I'll pass, I don't want to play into the weird bias confirmation you have going on.

Congrats on two posts which don't mention that other race series.

bp_SFV4 said:

… Now you're giving me a podcast assignment? I'll pass…

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Doesn’t have to be about the person sharing a source of information - the information might still be valuable.

I listened to the podcast. Bom is a wealth of MotoGP knowledge. He discusses how ride height devices and aero have impacted racing (aero has even changed the way the riders brake), and more generally, how racing has gotten closer (bikes are closer in performance, riders are closer in skill, overall racing is closer), so every sector of the race has become more important. This is especially true of the start, and is why (combined with difficulty passing) the start now significantly impacts the finish (as it did historically in F1).

They shared an interesting stat - in the first 8 races this year, there were 2 passes for the lead, both at Sachsenring.

2 passes in 8 races. Is that progress from Assen 2018?

Neil Hodgson wrote an article about riding a gp bike a few years ok. Worth the trouble to find.

A few years back...

bp_SFV4 said:

I thought you wanted me to ignore you? Now you're giving me a podcast assignment? I'll pass, I don't want to play into the weird bias confirmation you have going on.

Congrats on two posts which don't mention that other race series.

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Calm down and dont be so fragile, its ok.... we are only talking about MotoGP and no one is telling you to do anything

craig bush said:

Doesn’t have to be about the person sharing a source of information - the information might still be valuable.

I listened to the podcast. Bom is a wealth of MotoGP knowledge. He discusses how ride height devices and aero have impacted racing (aero has even changed the way the riders brake), and more generally, how racing has gotten closer (bikes are closer in performance, riders are closer in skill, overall racing is closer), so every sector of the race has become more important. This is especially true of the start, and is why (combined with difficulty passing) the start now significantly impacts the finish (as it did historically in F1).

They shared an interesting stat - in the first 8 races this year, there were 2 passes for the lead, both at Sachsenring.

2 passes in 8 races. Is that progress from Assen 2018?

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Great series, they really admire the technical excellence and achievement of Ducati and how incredible the bikes are. They say that rider skill is not making the difference like it used to hence the F1 analogy. Ducati benefitted from concessions and the standard ECU and software then went on to adopt and integrate a 2000 part hydraulic computer to do the same thing! Interesting comment that I picked up is that software could achieve a similar result which I understand is the reason that it was controlled, Honda and Yamaha agreed to it for the good of the series even though they have a significant advantage over the Euros, so its a bit in your face for Ducati to press home their own advantage and not give an inch although fully understandable. There is the technical side and the sporting side, both exist within a set of rules and rules can be changes when it gets out of whack, most of the experienced people think it needs to change to put the focus back on rider skill.

Yeah, they identified the rear ride height device as particularly field-leveling with regard to skill - now essentially everyone can get max corner exit drive regardless of skill because the ride height device makes it so much easier.

Paul G said:

…hence the F1 analogy…

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I’m starting to wonder if they’re paying you for mentions in order to have some weird affect on some Google algorithm.

Real racing actually ended a while ago. The minute computers were used for anything other than fuel injection it was done. Put a cable throttle on the gp bikes. Bring back real racing. Turn the electronics off. Then we'll see who's skillful.

500 cc V8's ala guzzi. That would be an interesting gp motor.

MotoAmerica needs plenty of viewers.

bp_SFV4 said:

MotoAmerica needs plenty of viewers.

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I’m one! I’m heading off to Laguna Seca. I’m riding the track on Monday with Ducati REVS.

Will Honda pout and leave.....

I see bigger factors in play with most of the subjects IMHO.
Information spread has increased in the last generation from almost nothing to everyone having substantial access to most everything. This has made riders more similar.
Add Valentino's school coming to fruition with several of the top winning riders sourced there.
Still with 40% Ducati on the track there are few dominant winners. Not an even spread of wins between them = it's not entirely about the tech.

What happened to Japan? It's what's happening to the entire industry. Honda was selling >20, million bikes a year, 2019, recently at 16.8 million. Yamaha etc same deal.
Japan's market is Mass market: Component and tire companies getting hit hard as well. Asking big questions.
& Youth Market: They'd rather buy an iPhone than a bike.
Dorna viewership: See above. They also do not have €100 for subscriptions to motogp when their OpenAi subscription has got their cards maxed pushing tiktok videos. Dorna put its self into this business model which has sucked for teams because the small number of viewers compared to a free or low-cost viewing is many times the number of viewers. So the marketing pay-off for eg. tire companies is smaller compared to the enormous expense. This is why the changed to a single tire rule. If you loose half the races, there's no marketing pay-off. If you win ever race, it's good. For all the other sponsors it sucks. It's very expensive.

EU bikes not mass market. 40-50 somethings with disposable income buying Ducati, BMW...Sales are up even through Covid.
Ducati sold 53,000 bikes in 2022,
Compared to 20,000,000. That's a really big number difference considering the same drop in tire sales, parts, repairs, add-ons... The industry is in big trouble.

The business model has been "increase prices every year" at a rate much greater than average salaries increase if at all with inflation. Track days, races, tires everything. This model has pushed to its greedy limit. Why less youth are interested. It's simply out of their reach.
eg. A track day at Mugello is now about €1000. including all costs.
The average salary of an Italian is €1500 a month. Do the math. It's no longer possible for the average Italian and that was always the customer. Now it's all changing to a smaller and smaller crowd. I got a call about was offered an exclusive VIP track day spot in an 80 person max at the track for a low low price of €8400. for the day catered of course.
How is this going to work if the track day customers are the Kenu Reves of the world? One year they're at the track the next year they're sailing or flying or into cars. I don't see this utra-VIP model working.

Japanese companies are not investing in racing the same way the EU bikes have been.
Add - (this is hear-say via Jack Miller) - Marc was pushing his garage to customize everything including staff changes to fit him as he dominated. He became injured pretty consistently for years and now his garage and bike's engineering are way off. That was a risk they took, all eggs in one basket, and it was a disaster.
According to both Vale and Fabio, all bike's in Yamaha garage's setups are dictated by engineers in Japan not even at the track to a calculated ideal based on telemetries and egos. This has been frustrating to Yamaha pilots. Fabio was a Cinderella and it fit him well at first. Now? See interview with Morbidelli, he's not so excited to return next season to Yamaha.

Casey Stoner (via video interview) was consulting a few Ducati riders Jack, Pecco etc. They proclaimed difficulty getting their set up perfect for many tracks stating the bike is great in some sections, while a disaster in other sections, it was impossibel to get it right everywhere. Casey told them to "stop messing with set up and ride it differently." eg. Instead of changing throttle parameters, short shift coming out of turns. They all improved with significant results after that.
This is where the interesting racing is for me. Watching the riding skills evolve.