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Why 1000 cc fours? Just because it resembles what's being sold. BS. 750 NA 4's, any configuration 500's NA, 375 two strokes, 350 4 strokes with a rootes pump any configuration, 250 4 stroke turbo's. No active aero. No active ride height. No TC,ABS, wheelie electronics etc. Minimum weight 125 kgs. Any tire from any source.
 
baggerman said:
Why 1000 cc fours? Just because it resembles what's being sold. BS. 750 NA 4's, any configuration 500's NA, 375 two strokes, 350 4 strokes with a rootes pump any configuration, 250 4 stroke turbo's. No active aero. No active ride height. No TC,ABS, wheelie electronics etc. Minimum weight 125 kgs. Any tire from any source.
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Yeah, you’d think a prototype class would allow prototypes.
 
Vbreeze said:
A track day at Mugello is now about €1000. including all costs.
The average salary of an Italian is €1500 a month. Do the math.
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Google says the average salary in Italy in 2022 is $2,627 EUR ($2,855 USD) per month. You're only like 40% wrong. :p
 
bp_SFV4 said:
Google says the average salary in Italy in 2022 is $2,627 EUR ($2,855 USD) per month. You're only like 40% wrong. :p
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Sorry I was referring to working class mass market type individuals who have been the core motorcycle market customers. Someone who works a 9-5 as employee. I got my info from locals. Cross spectral country wide average, sure could be €2627. Still is that not shockingly low? The areas differ enormously. In Milan (north) it tends to be way above that. In the south, way below that. Most of the racetracks are Central to North. Rome and up. There's a very old one in Sicily. Crazy how many there are in a country smaller than California with a population of 60 million.
 
Numbers aside, I don't see a person of average means doing track days regardless. Motorsports is an expensive endeavor.
 
bp_SFV4 said:
Numbers aside, I don't see a person of average means doing track days regardless. Motorsports is an expensive endeavor.
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That's the point. Japanese brands are mass market brands. Average working class are their main customer.
Track life, ya, more expensive than golf these days hahaha.
 
craig bush said:
Where’d the other Hondas finish?
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riders like nakagami finished in 16th place but that's where he normally finishes Isn't it ? the key word is finish, MM hasen't finished a race all year. it's not the bike. Dani pedrosa raced one race this year and finished 7th he has more points than MM.
 
I think his woes have more to do with the development path the team took over the last few years than just the rider or the bike. That’s not to say the bike is competitive, it’s obvious that it’s not. I wouldn’t hang it all on MM though.
 
Macattack said:
riders like nakagami finished in 16th place but that's where he normally finishes Isn't it ? the key word is finish, MM hasen't finished a race all year. it's not the bike. Dani pedrosa raced one race this year and finished 7th he has more points than MM.
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Your point about Nakagami is fair.

How many races has Mir finished this year? Did he and Marc coincidentally lose their world championship winning skill simultaneously?
 
craig bush said:
Your point about Nakagami is fair.

How many races has Mir finished this year? Did he and Marc coincidentally lose their world championship winning skill simultaneously?
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again fair point , In the interview after the race marquez was saying he was riding at less than 100% effort trying to stay far away from the limit and yet he was happy with his performance. the interview make him sound touched in the head. the interviewer had to ask the question three times because the answer didn't make sense. because he crashed again and because he ran into another rider again. Honestly is this the fifth time he has ran into other riders this year? i've lost count.
 
Macattack said:
again fair point , In the interview after the race marquez was saying he was riding at less than 100% effort trying to stay far away from the limit and yet he was happy with his performance. the interview make him sound touched in the head. the interviewer had to ask the question three times because the answer didn't make sense. because he crashed again and because he ran into another rider again. Honestly is this the fifth time he has ran into other riders this year? i've lost count.
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I didn’t see that interview, but I suspect he feels a bit like Alice, tumbling down the rabbit hole. He was winning for what - 15 years? Won the MotoGP title as a rookie - who does that?! He’s known nothing but success in MotoGP, and not even mere success - 16th to 3rd in half a race at Jerez before “The Crash”. And now, he’s fighting for 15th? I never cared for him, but seeing his mettle since the accident, I have a new respect for him.
 
DCPanni said:
Honda pays MM quite a lot of money….not to score a single point in MotoGP this season.
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Based on prior success.

This goes back to my previous post about the strategic mistakes by the Honda team. They beat heavily on MM's talent and success at the time only to not develop the bike so other riders could be successful and then MM suffers a huge injury. These mistakes are only observable with the benefit of hindsight, granted.

ETA: The talk of the town should be Aprilia and KTM. Aprilia has been on a strong development path, but KTM seems to have come out of nowhere in 2023 likely due to Red Bull's F1 aero knowledge. But, Aprilia owes a debt to Aleix for development for sure.
 
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craig bush said:
I didn’t see that interview, but I suspect he feels a bit like Alice, tumbling down the rabbit hole. He was winning for what - 15 years? Won the MotoGP title as a rookie - who does that?! He’s known nothing but success in MotoGP, and not even mere success - 16th to 3rd in half a race at Jerez before “The Crash”. And now, he’s fighting for 15th? I never cared for him, but seeing his mettle since the accident, I have a new respect for him.
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All those guys have a mettle that is beyond imagination. I'm kind of waiting for the arrival to rock-bottom at this point before they decide to reset that team and build a new thing. What's become his normal is pretty bad, matching Honda's. Years now. Will be interesting to see what becomes of him. The external pressures must be insanity.
 
Lots of talk about Honda and their lack of results but what’s up w Yamaha. They had one of the easiest bikes to ride but didn’t want to get involved in the aero/geometry game until too late. What’s next for them?
 
We hypothesized on & on about Japanese manufacturers sucking it right now. No real answer bottom line.
I just can't image they've simply dropped the ball this badly. I keep waiting for "what they've been working on in secret."
I don't know. J Rea in WSBK isn't blowing any doors off on his Kawi either.
It's no doubt the EU's day. It's just weird that Ducati, KTM, Aprilia, all tiny manufacturers & BMW out of the blue, are the bomb.
Kawi, Yam, Honda, massive manufacturers sucking. Only things in common I can see is, Japanese bike market (Mass Market) has plummeted while, Higher end, older customer, EU market breaking records.
Is it just a money story? That's all I got.
 

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