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I’m inclined to agree.

How does that relate to any of the points I made above (post 213)?

I agree with most of what you said , but MM started crashing way before any of this stuff and he has two f'ed shoulders and a bunch of head trauma, as well as the young guns were coming fast way back in 2017 . all this and now honda is admitting they have relied on a formula that was bound to get beat. It sounds like honda doesn't want concessions. By your logic how do you know that the people who are winning now weren't much faster than fabio, Joan, and marq but just on the wrong bike? some of the fastest people who have ever lived couldn't win on the ducati, are you saying that no matter what happens when there is a winner it's always the bike or if it's a ducati its always 100% the bike. IMO concessions goes against the dna of GP and prototype racing. (I'm for concessions for teams who are getting into motogp to help them start up) when Joan mir won it was the amazing skill he had because he is a amazing talent way faster than Bagnaia. and now that Joan mir is struggling with injury It's obviously because honda is a terrible company that cannot build a bike for ..... <----- that's the way I construe your point.
 
Look at Alex Marquez gets on a ducati and starts being competitive. The ducati's used to push like crazy and had no front end feel. Now they can turn inside the I4's. You can say what you want about Pecco but he's the best guy on the brakes. And never loses the rear (one time last season).
 
Honda is building a mountain bike , should be amazing .
honda1.jpg
 
…Couldn’t win on the Ducati they were riding at the time. Casey Stoner never got on a GP23.

I said: " some of the fastest people who have ever lived couldn't win on the ducati,"

some meaning not all and casey won on the ducati when no one else could even ride the thing without crashing.

I'm assuming you're trying to agree with me because I think casey stoner proves my point . he was and is a verry versatile racer like mic doohan for example .

I don't have a super strong opinion and agree with a lot of the people on much of the poiints made. honestly I like hearing and learning from contrary opinions. I do not want concessions for honda and yamaha though . it would be the death nell for the sport imo.
 
I agree with most of what you said , but MM started crashing way before any of this stuff and he has two f'ed shoulders and a bunch of head trauma, as well as the young guns were coming fast way back in 2017 . all this and now honda is admitting they have relied on a formula that was bound to get beat. It sounds like honda doesn't want concessions. By your logic how do you know that the people who are winning now weren't much faster than fabio, Joan, and marq but just on the wrong bike? some of the fastest people who have ever lived couldn't win on the ducati, are you saying that no matter what happens when there is a winner it's always the bike or if it's a ducati its always 100% the bike. IMO concessions goes against the dna of GP and prototype racing. (I'm for concessions for teams who are getting into motogp to help them start up) when Joan mir won it was the amazing skill he had because he is a amazing talent way faster than Bagnaia. and now that Joan mir is struggling with injury It's obviously because honda is a terrible company that cannot build a bike for ..... <----- that's the way I construe your point.

First, I’m no subject matter expert. I feel similarly to your later statement that you agree with many points others have made and enjoy sharing ideas. 👍

Neil Spaulding’s book “MotoGP Technology” informs much of my opinion that the most important determinant of performance is the bike/rider combo:

- the rider must be talented “enough” relative to other riders
- the bike must be fast “enough” relative to other bikes
- the bike must also give the rider “enough” of whatever they prioritize (front end feel, stability under braking, rear traction, etc…) to instill confidence, and if it doesn’t - it might not matter how talented the rider is or how fast the bike is, the combo might not be fast.

It seems to me:

- if nearly every rider on a particular bike is competitive (current ducati), it suggests the bike is not only good but relatively easy to ride

- conversely if nearly every rider on a particular bike is not competitive (current Honda), it suggests the bike is either not good or is difficult to ride

- if one rider is dominant on a bike no one else is winning on (like Stoner or Marquez), it suggests either the dominant rider is particularly talented (and might win on any bike), OR that particular bike/rider combo hit a proverbial “sweet spot” (the bike and rider are each relatively “good enough”, and the bike gives the rider exactly the characteristics he wants/needs to feel confident).
 
It seems to me:

- if nearly every rider on a particular bike is competitive (current ducati), it suggests the bike is not only good but relatively easy to ride
Seems like Ducati , Ktm , Aprillia are also competitive - Euro mfgers seem to be ahead of the japanese. Ciabatti hinted they feel the aprillia is really good package to ride

- conversely if nearly every rider on a particular bike is not competitive (current Honda), it suggests the bike is either not good or is difficult to ride
I personally feel the honda is a potential winner the parts are there to win its the right motor configuration right technology right areo just being mismanaged IMO. yamaha is going to have to start over

- if one rider is dominant on a bike no one else is winning on (like Stoner or Marquez), it suggests either the dominant rider is particularly talented (and might win on any bike), OR that particular bike/rider combo hit a proverbial “sweet spot” (the bike and rider are each relatively “good enough”, and the bike gives the rider exactly the characteristics he wants/needs to feel confident). it seems like this comparison is nearly exactly like yamaha and honda's dominance a few years ago. It was always honda 123 or yamaha 123 and no one even noticed. when marq won on the honda the general consensus was that the honda was the better bike because others were winning on it. it had a competitive motor and the handling was considered second only to the yamaha. when stoner won the ducati was considered unrideable by most. Honda has a tendency to have lesser riders to run defense so they can protect their golden goose. this IMO is not a very good strategy . I also think that dani pedrosa was one of the most underrated riders who got rogered by honda. again marqez was crashing multiple times per weekend long before the japanese bikes started falling behind. there is a jap vs euro war brewing
 
MotoGP is going down a dead end, the rules need to change. Who many starts this year have had a full grid- zero, thats right every single race has at least one man down through injuries. The bikes are now too fast, it was explained to me that if you compress the braking zone and increase corner speed, then you create a very dangerous environment as we have seen plus the forces on the body are almost at the limit, arm pump surgery anyone?. I can see a time where I wont follow it, for the same reasons I dont go to bare knuckle boxing matches. Ducati have done a great job but the answer is not a whole field of Ducati like bikes, its remove ride height and limit aero. They need to be slowed down before someone gets killed and then it changes
 
Regression will surely drive up the popularity.

Regression? Meaning slower lap times?

I don’t know. My impression is that lap times have relatively little to do with entertainment. Quality riding, close racing and lead changes are far more entertaining than lap records.

Years of aero dominance in F1 so negatively impacted the entertainment value of the racing that they had to completely redesign the cars to inject some actual racing back into the high speed procession events. ;)

This seems to demonstrate pretty conclusively that in the absence of good racing, spectators don’t care about lap times. Is Assen 2018 widely considered one of the best races of all time because of fast lap times?
 
MotoGP is going down a dead end, the rules need to change. Who many starts this year have had a full grid- zero, thats right every single race has at least one man down through injuries. The bikes are now too fast, it was explained to me that if you compress the braking zone and increase corner speed, then you create a very dangerous environment as we have seen plus the forces on the body are almost at the limit, arm pump surgery anyone?. I can see a time where I wont follow it, for the same reasons I dont go to bare knuckle boxing matches. Ducati have done a great job but the answer is not a whole field of Ducati like bikes, its remove ride height and limit aero. They need to be slowed down before someone gets killed and then it changes

I agree sorta. IMHO They need to go to 750 or even 500 4 strokes. The active ride height needs to go. The aero stuff is inevitable regardless of the motor size.
 
Why not just watch Moto2 or Moto3? All this crying about MotoGP, I don’t get it.

What we have witnessed in the last few years is not evolution but revolution in bike design as Ducati exploited the rule book. Now the bikes are pushing the physical limits and forcing riders to make high risk overtakes. Its all about getting onto the front row and winning the first lap, after that it's a soldiers course. Look no further than F1

Lets assume that they solve the front tire issue and it doesnt over heat, now the pack is much closer and braking later into a smaller zone, add in dirty air so aero doesnt work, given that under brakes is where most of the overtakes are happening you are forcing riders to take more risks. Eventually someone is going to die, we have had horrific accidents this year as a warning that the class is going in the wrong direction.
 
is Assen 2018 widely considered one of the best races of all time because of fast lap times?

Assen this year was a dull parade, even fast guys like Jorge Martin got stuck behind a slow group that were impossible to overtake and Pecco said the number one goal is get in front with clear air...yawn

Every year the Aero is getting better (read worse) in F1 there are cost caps and wind tunnel limits to control the limitless expenditure on teams of "aerodynamicists" who make seemingly tiny changes in design that make massive differences in performance. MotoGP hasnt even begun the aero race in comparison.
 
Three new posts, all mention how F1 sucks.

This is more boring than watching a NASCAR race at this point.
 

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