MotoGP 2023

... he's a winner. someone can correct me if I'm wrong but Luca Marini and Alex Marquez have not won a race yet despite better/comparable equipment

CSV4 said:

... he's a winner. someone can correct me if I'm wrong but Luca Marini and Alex Marquez have not won a race yet despite better/comparable equipment

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Wrong time to win… too little too late Seems that “team orders” came down from Ducati brass

Those 4 points lost could be crucial next week….its at 21 now. Like it’s been said, anything can happen…Hayden only got his title secured when Rossi went down back in 2006. If Peco goes down, and Martin gets a good result….those 4 points could be crucial. Oh and Ducati will never admit in public there are team orders, unlike ...... F1 where it’s been very obvious in past seasons. Any why was Martin having so much rear grip struggle when no other Ducati was???? Even on the start launch he spun up and nearly wadded the bike right then and there. What’s going on in his rear height device all the sudden? Once again all the other Ducatis got great starts. Conspiracies abound.,

Macattack said:

So you guys think team Gresini DIGI takes orders from the factory ducati team ,,, but Prima Pramac JMartin does not take orders from the factory ducati team. I've seen Martin nearly punt factory Bagnaia bike off the track. Even if what you are saying is true I'd win the race if I were Digi especially if I had no ride next year. so much talent on the track right now it's hard to comprehend . Gresini would be insane not to take first place on the podium. IMO

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I think Digi’s explanation was legit.

As an aside, as much as I appreciate the race result it’s worth noting:

Passes for the lead - 1
Riders in contention for the win after lap 5 - 2


And when the rider in second attempted a pass to reclaim the lead, he nearly took himself and the race leader out due to the massive slipstream created by all the aero.

Aero contributes so much to the quality of the racing.

I went back and watched the 2018 Assen race, and what struck me was that it was a really good race and all of the bikes had aero, but no ride height devices.

craig bush said:

I think Digi’s explanation was legit.

As an aside, as much as I appreciate the race result it’s worth noting:

Passes for the lead - 1
Riders in contention for the win after lap 5 - 2


And when the rider in second attempted a pass to reclaim the lead, he nearly took himself and the race leader out due to the massive slipstream created by all the aero.

Aero contributes so much to the quality of the racing.

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those wings do not create slipstream turbulence. A prop or a jet engine would. this is the crazy ........ the commentators have created to drum up insanity. the whole the bike creates in the air (the air pocket for drafting) is not affected one small percent by winglets. he got mixed up in the draft and missed his breaking mark. this would have happened before wings and the new areo development.

Macattack said:

those wings do not create slipstream turbulence. A prop or a jet engine would. this is the crazy ........ the commentators have created to drum up insanity. the whole the bike creates in the air (the air pocket for drafting) is not affected one small percent by winglets. he got mixed up in the draft and missed his breaking mark. this would have happened before wings and the new areo development.

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To my understanding, one of the basic principles of aerodynamics is that the more an object punches a hole through the air (i.e. the more aerodynamic drag it generates), the greater the air immediately behind it is disrupted, and the greater the potential negative effects are on following objects.

This was illustrated very well in F1 as evidenced by the fact that the sporting regulations had to be completely rewritten, and the cars redesigned, because turbulence-generating aero (i.e. wings) disrupted the air for following vehicles so significantly that passing became nearly impossible and the quality of racing suffered.

Now in MotoGP, multiple riders and journalists are asserting that the ever-escalating aero development (using turbulence-generating wings) is causing difficulty overtaking and ruining the racing. And there was only one pass for the lead in yesterday’s race.

But you’re probably right - this is all coincidental and has nothing to do with aero development.

It's interesting to look at the weights of the various riders. Bez is the lightest on the grid 61kg, Jorge 64kg is lighter than Pecco at 66kg. Now I get why Bez sometimes totally clears off (that and his massive talent). Pecco is the most consistent "fat guy".

Frankie cargetti digi team engineer said mapping 8 told him 5 laps to go … and push!

The Rossi-lings better enjoy the glory now, because with #MM93 on the GP23 next year, all the BS stops…

If he can adapt quickly then it should be very interesting as he'll certainly have a bike capable of winning and his desire is clearly still in abundance.

craig bush said:

To my understanding, one of the basic principles of aerodynamics is that the more an object punches a hole through the air (i.e. the more aerodynamic drag it generates), the greater the air immediately behind it is disrupted, and the greater the potential negative effects are on following objects.

This was illustrated very well in F1 as evidenced by the fact that the sporting regulations had to be completely rewritten, and the cars redesigned, because turbulence-generating aero (i.e. wings) disrupted the air for following vehicles so significantly that passing became nearly impossible and the quality of racing suffered.

Now in MotoGP, multiple riders and journalists are asserting that the ever-escalating aero development (using turbulence-generating wings) is causing difficulty overtaking and ruining the racing. And there was only one pass for the lead in yesterday’s race.

But you’re probably right - this is all coincidental and has nothing to do with aero development.

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I just don't think those little wings create any wake turbulence. In order to do this they would have to have a drag =&^ to force that would create a swirl in the air that would disrupt the air enough to be felt. in order do do this it would slow the bikes way down (drag) the hole that is punched through the air is way bigger when the rider sits up at the end of the straight. and comparing the gp to F1 A f1 car is generating like 6000LBS of downforce at the end of the straight and probably 2000lbs+ anywhere on the track. the gp wings don't look like they do anything on the straights. . the only force it looks like those thin little strips of plastic could possibly produce is when the bike front end dips or when the bike is leaned over. I would guess the gp wings produce near zero drag in the straights and this is good because the bikes cannot have the fuel or hp to do this. F1 cars are simply overpowered compared to the ability to apply friction to the ground. motogp bikes are using the areo to produce a little down force in turning due to weight distribution F1 cars would fly through the air like a kite and land hundreds of yards away from the track without the wings and venturi that make them stick to the track. its apples and oranges IMO , I agree I'm not qualified to doubt the experts you mentioned

My understanding was simply that the wings aren’t as effective when they aren’t in clean air and so it’s easier to find you’ve got less braking when you are following closely than when you have clean air ahead of you.

CSV4 said:

Toprak drops unexpected Repsol Honda hint, ‘can talk MotoGP contract after 2025’

Toprak Razgatlioglu claims he has been approached by a MotoGP team but that he’s tied into his current Superbike contract with BMW.

www.crash.net

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Honda is better than BMW for sure

I copied this off the internet unknown author:
People say that the rider doesn't make a difference anymore, yet advancements like aero have made riding styles become more decisive than ever. Come down the rabbit hole with me...
As a base understanding, the lower and further out of your bike you lean the better angle you can get out of the bike.
Initially the introduction of aero pushing the front deeper meant it was harder to keep tighter turns at speed. On top of this with the big step in softness from bridgstones to michelin. Manufactures had to find ways to balance the bike better to get around corners in best speed. This is why we've seen aero appear along the fairings and now on the tail section
This has lead alot of us to believe that it's become a tech battle not a rider battle, when the opposite is true. Riding style, and more specifically riding position is vital for corner speed. We're now seeing riders hang further and lower off the bikes, and there's good reason. The original idea still applies, hang lower - turn tighter.
But now there's even more to it. By hanging off the bike rider's are able to manipulate air flow through some areas, and maximise it in others. By hanging down by the side of the bike riders are able to distrupt airflow on the apex side of the bike, so the inside nose aero that would usually push the tyre out, is less effective. By distrupting the air flow they also act as an almost air-brake on one side of the bike helping the turning motion.
By hanging off they also increase the airflow over the bike to the tail aero, creating a much more balanced airflow, and downforce at the front and rear of the bike. This is why you'll notice maverick runs the aprilia tail aero more often than aleix, he hang's much further off and is able to maximise it's effect much more.
This is why we're seeing the much more extreme riding styles; ie pecco, martin, viñales, bezzechi having really strong 1 lap pace. What does this mean? The rider is still a vital part of the package, and extreme angles are going to be more and more popular

Steve Hughes posted in MotoGP Tech on FB.

Who is he?

I’d rather see the ride height devices banned as a priority over aero. Also not sure how Dorna could justify banning aero when they need IRTA agreement

craig bush said:

Steve Hughes posted in MotoGP Tech on FB.

Who is he?

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I give up. Who is he?

bp_SFV4 said:

I give up. Who is he?

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English MotoGP fan on FB I think.