MotoGP 2023

Macattack said:

Just so I understand causation argument we are being talked down from authority with
this is what I'm being told - right ?
If pedrosa finishes ahead of marq it's talent by pedrosa and MM below Dani it's the bike. but when mm gets a podium It's not the honda improving its pure talent. also the entire field is lacking talent except MM proving the honda is complete garbage. this is starting to get as confusing as gender theory .
All silly talk aside , I do think MM should have stayed with Honda . They are going to get the rc up to speed soon.

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As annoying as Rossi fans can be, the anti-Marquez crowd are trying hard to surpass them.

I don’t hear anyone arguing inconsistently. Marc has established himself as the best rider of the last decade. Recently, he isn’t competitive. It’s either predominantly him, or predominantly the bike. An indicator of which is the fact that no one on a Honda is consistently competitive.

Another indicator, is that Marc is consistently the highest finishing Honda rider.

Additionally, three of the four Honda riders (including two prior world champions) have been injured in crashes, and one of those prior champs (Mir) won the championship specifically by being the most consistent finisher in the field and rarely crashing.

So, either all 3 riders (two world champions and one multiple race winner) simultaneously lost their talent, or the bike they’re riding has issues.

Seems pretty straightforward to me - no mental gymnastics necessary (unlike modern gender theory).

Lastly, another former competitor (Lorenzo) is now on record identifying Marc as the best rider on the grid:

“For me, he is still the best, Marc Marquez, physically and mentally, I would not rule him out.”

He and Crutchlow must be in on the conspiracy too.


Article link:

craig bush said:

As annoying as Rossi fans can be, the anti-Marquez crowd are trying hard to surpass them.

I don’t hear anyone arguing inconsistently. Marc has established himself as the best rider of the last decade. Recently, he isn’t competitive. It’s either predominantly him, or predominantly the bike. An indicator of which is the fact that no one on a Honda is consistently competitive.

Another indicator, is that Marc is consistently the highest finishing Honda rider.

Additionally, three of the four Honda riders (including two prior world champions) have been injured in crashes, and one of those prior champs (Mir) won the championship specifically by being the most consistent finisher in the field and rarely crashing.

So, either all 3 riders (two world champions and one multiple race winner) simultaneously lost their talent, or the bike they’re riding has issues.

Seems pretty straightforward to me - no mental gymnastics necessary (unlike modern gender theory).

Lastly, another former competitor (Lorenzo) is now on record identifying Marc as the best rider on the grid:

“For me, he is still the best, Marc Marquez, physically and mentally, I would not rule him out.”

He and Crutchlow must be in on the conspiracy too.


Article link:

Jorge Lorenzo delivers a brutal prediction about Marc Marquez on a Ducati

Jorge Lorenzo thinks Marc Marquez will fight for next season’s MotoGP championship if he joins Ducati.

www.crash.net

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I'm the only one saying this stuff and it's not anti Marquez If it's ok to claim the entire field has low talent is fine and that is not annoying , but pointing out thinking Marq marquez Might not be as fast as he used to or competition is coming up to his level is really annoying . like a rossi nut swinger. maybe youre a Marq Marquez fan like those rossi fans are LOL

I think MM made the right move. He’s an older rider and likely doesn’t have very many competitive years yet, and it’s obvious he set out to have the most titles.

The simple fact remains that Pecco, Bez and Martin…maybe Binder…will also have a say in who wins next years championship.

Macattack said:

Just so I understand causation argument we are being talked down from authority with
this is what I'm being told - right ?
If pedrosa finishes ahead of marq it's talent by pedrosa and MM below Dani it's the bike. but when mm gets a podium It's not the honda improving its pure talent. also the entire field is lacking talent except MM proving the honda is complete garbage. this is starting to get as confusing as gender theory .
All silly talk aside , I do think MM should have stayed with Honda . They are going to get the rc up to speed soon.

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Your arguments silly, Pedrosa finishes in front of Marc because talent 9 plus bike 9, Marc finishes behind Pedrosa because talent 10 plus bike 7.... make sense? Pedrosa is showing how good he is given that who he is racing against are battle hardened full time racers, while he races once or twice a year? The field are not poor quality, its just that he is an Alien.

Paul G said:

Marc is an alien, so is Pedrosa. DP double 4ths shows you how "average" this field is.

With MM on a competitive bike and its going to be a lot of great racing

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Paul G said:

Your arguments silly, Pedrosa finishes in front of Marc because talent 9 plus bike 9, Marc finishes behind Pedrosa because talent 10 plus bike 7.... make sense? Pedrosa is showing how good he is given that who he is racing against are battle hardened full time racers, while he races once or twice a year? The field are not poor quality, its just that he is an Alien.

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You called the entire field average Including the people who are dominating the track and the ones who are former champions like Fabio Q. I don't agree with this. IMO If mm was as good as you think he is He would have rode over the bikes problems like casey stoner did on the Ducati (07,08)when no one else could ride it . literally every racer who rode that bike (gp7) said it was unridable and he won a championship with it. Nobody in motogp is average an no man is immortal . MM wasnt robbed of his 19 championship he crashed . talent is also measured in the ability to hold your line and finish the race. the alien thing is subjective at best , but if MM was an alien would he crash an average of 3 times per race weekend, and shouldn't his celestial powers propel him past any motorcycle flaws?

Macattack said:

You called the entire field average Including the people who are dominating the track and the ones who are former champions like Fabio Q. I don't agree with this. IMO If mm was as good as you think he is He would have rode over the bikes problems like casey stoner did on the Ducati (07,08)when no one else could ride it . literally every racer who rode that bike (gp7) said it was unridable and he won a championship with it. Nobody in motogp is average an no man is immortal . MM wasnt robbed of his 19 championship he crashed . talent is also measured in the ability to hold your line and finish the race. the alien thing is subjective at best , but if MM was an alien would he crash an average of 3 times per race weekend, and shouldn't his celestial powers propel him past any motorcycle flaws?

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You seem to be arguing from a position of emotion and personal investment, and it seems to cloud your objectivity. This is evidenced by the fact that Marquez wasn’t robbed of the 2019 championship - he won it. I think you meant to reference the 2020 championship, which, you’re correct - he wasn’t robbed, he crashed.

And before that crash, he rode from 16th to 3rd in like 8 laps. No one, not even Stoner, has so dominated the field similarly, in the modern era. Can you identify a rider who could do the same today?

You assert that if Marc was as talented as others claim, he would have ridden over the bikes issues. Who says he wasn’t? He won 6 championships from 2013-2019 - what other Honda rider challlenged for the championship during that time?

craig bush said:

You seem to be arguing from a position of emotion and personal investment, and it seems to cloud your objectivity. This is evidenced by the fact that Marquez wasn’t robbed of the 2019 championship - he won it. I think you meant to reference the 2020 championship, which, you’re correct - he wasn’t robbed, he crashed.

And before that crash, he rode from 16th to 3rd in like 8 laps. No one, not even Stoner, has so dominated the field similarly, in the modern era. Can you identify a rider who could do the same today?

You assert that if Marc was as talented as others claim, he would have ridden over the bikes issues. Who says he wasn’t? He won 6 championships from 2013-2019 - what other Honda rider challlenged for the championship during that time?

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I did mess up the 2019 and 2020 year but that's not emotional its forgetting facts. I never dismissed his talent in 2013 - 2019 I was saying if he was as an alien he would have overridden the problems the current bike has. I personally don't believe in the mm alien thing. that's what I was saying . I actually like him denying his talent is absurd I'm trying to say these rules you people have laid down dont hold water. for example: if everyone is average except for mm and DP and martin and bagnia are simply average guys riding much much faster bikes then next year Marq marquez will have to win a championship and have a win record at least as good as win record as Jorge Martin.

I believe the ducati is a minor advantage and the vrcrew and the younger talent runing ahead of Marq M are caught up to him and now are actually much better. I'm clearly not allowed to have this opinion because youre emotionally obligated to defend MM. what will happen if MM doesnt at least dominate and win the championship will you blame the bike that seems emotionally detached from reality

Macattack said:

… these rules you people have laid down dont hold water…

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“You people”? lol

As you get more emotional, your ability to engage in civil debate devolves. If you reference post 249, you’ll see I agree the riders are all very skilled.

Two former MotoGP riders, both of whom raced against Marc (one of whom won a championship against him), have recently identified Marc as the best rider on the grid.

But what do they know? Your opinion is probably more credible than theirs.

craig bush said:

“You people”? lol

As you get more emotional, your ability to engage in civil debate devolves. If you reference post 249, you’ll see I agree the riders are all very skilled.

Two former MotoGP riders, both of whom raced against Marc (one of whom won a championship against him), have recently identified Marc as the best rider on the grid.

But what do they know? Your opinion is probably more credible than theirs.

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I take anything a rider or commentator says about any other rider with a grain of salt. They’ll always say good things about each other and try to avoid polemics no matter how much they hate each other. Silence, though, is louder than chatter

And next year when MM is on a Ducati and still finishes at the back or mid pack or still has to follow people around to get to Q2, the MM marks will have some other reason to blame, besides him. Injuries and Father Time have caught up to him.

craig bush said:

“You people”? lol

As you get more emotional, your ability to engage in civil debate devolves. If you reference post 249, you’ll see I agree the riders are all very skilled.

Two former MotoGP riders, both of whom raced against Marc (one of whom won a championship against him), have recently identified Marc as the best rider on the grid.

But what do they know? Your opinion is probably more credible than theirs.

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I'm telling you you're seriously misunderstanding me I've never called your opinion stupid , been belligerent , said anything offensive . you called me emotional simply because I refuse to blame the bike or see MM the way you see him. It's not a very good insult , but non the less it's an insult.
If I called your favorite racer average and you got fired up then that would be emotional. I'm not understand ? I do not dislike MM - I was just calling balls and strikes. I was not saying anything offensive , attacking you or even disregarding your opinion . I like the opposite opinions it gives me somthing to think about.
I don't care if MM wins the next championship I just dont see it happening I might even be pulling for him a bit more now that he is on a ducati.
you jumped into and took up the paul g response I made so yeah I lumped you in with him . I am not emotional simply because I disagree. I think the people who are professional racers like Lorenzo are self serving by saying this stuff. I don't disagree that mm was the most talented , I think he is no longer. I don't think Marq marquez is as good as the top racers in motogp like he was four years ago. whenever I say this people like you attack me for my opinion while saying my" ability to engage in civil debate devolves". I hope mm proves me wrong equal to how much I think I am right.

DCPanni said:

And next year when MM is on a Ducati and still finishes at the back or mid pack or still has to follow people around to get to Q2, the MM marks will have some other reason to blame, besides him. Injuries and Father Time have caught up to him.

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this is what I think also. I'm just not as good at saying it so succinctly .

How much better is WSBK despite Bautista’s and Ducat’s dominance and advantage. Championship is so much more fun to watch

SuperDomestique said:

How much better is WSBK despite Bautista’s and Ducat’s dominance and advantage. Championship is so much more fun to watch

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Portimao was epic!

Something like 32 position swaps between 1st and 2nd.

SuperDomestique said:

How much better is WSBK despite Bautista’s and Ducat’s dominance and advantage. Championship is so much more fun to watch

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I’m enjoying them both. Martin has made the GP season quite interesting, whereas it would be very surprising if Bautista doesn’t take WSBK.

I think what happened to MM was that he lost some sensation in the hand from the crash and subsequent arm surgery last year. He comes back, tucks the front time after time. As the season progresses he's relearning the sensation in that hand and he's improving. It's like fighter pilots they have to have 20/15 vision, he's recovering his 20/15 palms. That Honda is hard to ride (look at everyone else on one) but he manages somehow. I won't count him out just yet.

there's levels to the game. In F1 look at what Alonso and Verstappen do compared to what Stroll and Perez do w the same equipment... I'd put MM in the Alonso/Verstappen class even though I'm not a big fan.

Fabio Quartararo impresses me the way he overrides the bikes flaws. I think Yamaha could theoretically make the I4 competitive they might have to ditch the crossplane or growler motor . they will definitely need to do something Areo / motor redesign or he will have to jump to one of the other bikes. Those tires were completely destroyed by the end of the race. Subjectivity measures nothing consistently .