Help Support Ducati Forum:
- Joined
- Jan 16, 2018
- Messages
- 40
- Location
- CA
- Joined
- May 31, 2012
- Messages
- 5,510
- Location
- South Florida
yes its his home track
- Joined
- May 31, 2012
- Messages
- 5,510
- Location
- South Florida
better chance of seeing Jesus Christ himself throw a leg over the M1 and come in first than Flopsi win at mugello
Last edited:
- Joined
- May 31, 2012
- Messages
- 5,510
- Location
- South Florida
^^^^^^^ SOOOOO, Your saying there's a chance
Well played sir
39 points between Marquez and Rossi isnt a huge gap. As a Rossi fan I dont foresee him winning the championship. But finishing 2 or 3rd isnt out of the question. Everyone who keeps saying he needs to let the younger riders come up just hates the fact that Rossi at his age rides better than majority of the younger Motogp riders. Say what you want but unless he finishes in 7th or lower at the end of the season then I say maybe its time to go
- Joined
- Oct 22, 2016
- Messages
- 520
- Location
- Australia
.... .... he is only pushing 40 not 50 ?
- Joined
- May 31, 2012
- Messages
- 5,510
- Location
- South Florida
on a factory bike of the big 2 you are guaranteed 4th or better. anything worse than that is bad. why do you think honda is shopping for a replacement for danny. anything out of the top 4 for honda is bad.
he does need to give it up. the man has not been competitive for the title in years and is destroying the yamaha motogp program. they lost jorge who from the time of 2010 through 2016 won just under 50 percent of the championships at that time and was the developer of the bike.
no coincidence that since jorge left and maverick was sabotaged (cant have the rookie win his rookie year on the bike rossi cant.) the m1 is not competitive. no surprise that zarco is on an old bike.
just think it could have been maverick and jorge on a competitive yamaha. or jorge and zarco or zarco and maverick.
instead you have a guy cruising around steady fifth place or so collecting points and so much pressure on guys like dovi and zarco they crash and flopsi points up. great i guess if thats what you want out of your riders as a satalite team but im pretty sure the factory wants titles which will not happen unless he leaves.
2015 the yamaha was by far the best bike jorge won it all. 2016 MM won despite the honda. 2017 improved honda but not the best bike. 2018 best bike but not the best it could be.
on the flip side 2015 best bike. 2016 best bike but jorge tires disappear before the season thus MM wins despite the honda. 2017 jorge leaves maverick wins first 2 and i think 3 out of four. his tire disappears MM wins again. yamaha goes backwards. 2018 yamaha cant win at lemans where the year before they should have been 1-2-3. see a pattern.
no matter how much shenanigans papa carmelo, michilin, race direction and the media partake in rossi will never win again. hell he will be lucky to win a race again
as the great bill parcels always said you are what your record says you are. for rossi thats 1 race win a year if he is lucky.
Last edited:
- Joined
- May 31, 2012
- Messages
- 5,510
- Location
- South Florida
- Joined
- Jan 23, 2017
- Messages
- 515
- Location
- San Francisco, CA.
In case you missed this earlier: Marquez's winning secret finally revealed: "The holy grail of motorcycle racing has always been to come up with a device that can save front-end slides, and now Honda has one."
https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/opinion/motogp/marc-freak
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/opinion/motogp/marc-freak
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
- Joined
- May 31, 2012
- Messages
- 5,510
- Location
- South Florida
Last edited:
I was talking about Marquez, why did you turn the conversation to Rossi?
I’m a fan of Rossi, just as I am a fan of Marquez and his sheer talent on a bike. There’s no doubt that he is the fastest rider right now.
I’m also a fan of all the other riders that each weekend put on a solid display of bravery, talent and speed.
You accuse Rossi fans of being fanatics. Fair enough, there are some of them that are not worth the show those guys put on every sunday. They are not fans of the sport, only of Rossi.
But from what I’ve seen in this forum, you are no different than them since you are obsessed with Rossi all the time. I’d say you write more posts about Rossi than about Marquez which I assume is your rider of reference. Don’t you think that’s odd?
I’m not trying to paint Rossi as the most polite and correct rider in the world. He sure did have his own moments of madness and wrongdoing, Sepang 2015 being the worst of them IMO.
But when we are discussing Marquez or any other rider, why do you have to always bring Rossi? I say this with the utmost respect you and all the other members deserve, I’m not trying to pick an argument with you.
However, your Rossi bashing tirades are getting long in the tooth.
Now, back to Marquez... There’s no doubt in mind that MM would have won in Argentina. But he wasn’t robbed of anything.
In most club racing series, his starting grid shenanigans would warrant a black flag. So I don’t understand how can you say he was robbed of 25 points.
I’m a fan of Rossi, just as I am a fan of Marquez and his sheer talent on a bike. There’s no doubt that he is the fastest rider right now.
I’m also a fan of all the other riders that each weekend put on a solid display of bravery, talent and speed.
You accuse Rossi fans of being fanatics. Fair enough, there are some of them that are not worth the show those guys put on every sunday. They are not fans of the sport, only of Rossi.
But from what I’ve seen in this forum, you are no different than them since you are obsessed with Rossi all the time. I’d say you write more posts about Rossi than about Marquez which I assume is your rider of reference. Don’t you think that’s odd?
I’m not trying to paint Rossi as the most polite and correct rider in the world. He sure did have his own moments of madness and wrongdoing, Sepang 2015 being the worst of them IMO.
But when we are discussing Marquez or any other rider, why do you have to always bring Rossi? I say this with the utmost respect you and all the other members deserve, I’m not trying to pick an argument with you.
However, your Rossi bashing tirades are getting long in the tooth.
Now, back to Marquez... There’s no doubt in mind that MM would have won in Argentina. But he wasn’t robbed of anything.
In most club racing series, his starting grid shenanigans would warrant a black flag. So I don’t understand how can you say he was robbed of 25 points.
Last edited:
- Joined
- May 31, 2012
- Messages
- 5,510
- Location
- South Florida
replying to you dsant
this is what you asked me "May I ask what's your reasoning for not thinking that Marquez lost those 25 points due to his own wrongdoing"
i have no problem with MM being blacked flagged for Argentina (if that happened) or the penalties that he received from that race. the reason i had to mention Flopsi is because the one rider that can do anything and NEVER get anything done to him is Flopsi. That is why i brought him up. I have to bring him up in this instance of what you asked me because the system is not equal to each rider. It depends on who the rider is. THis has been brought up by Zarco at one of the press conferences and Jorge in previous press conferences.
So in summary if everything was equal i have no problem with Marquez getting no points if historically the same would have happened to Flopsi in the past but unfortunately its not the same for each rider.
This is why although marc was aggressive in argentina he should not have lost the points do to race direction history.
Let me ask you this and answer honestly not with yellow glasses on.
1 if marc would have been danny with the dovi lorenzo danny crash would there have been an uproar? (my answer yes because marc is running away with it so they have to keep it close)
2 if marc was the slower rider in Argentina and flopsi made the pass and Marc fell would the media have said it was fine and would flopsi have got a penalty? (we all know nothing would have happened to flopsi)
3 why wasnt flopsi penalized for sepang? as if you watch argentina race what marc did to flopsi wasnt that bad he had the line vs what flopsi did in sepang and he kept a third place finish and got nothing done to him except penalty points.
remember if he didn't get a penalty point earlier in the season nothing would have happened in valencia as 3 points do nothing to you.
this is what you asked me "May I ask what's your reasoning for not thinking that Marquez lost those 25 points due to his own wrongdoing"
i have no problem with MM being blacked flagged for Argentina (if that happened) or the penalties that he received from that race. the reason i had to mention Flopsi is because the one rider that can do anything and NEVER get anything done to him is Flopsi. That is why i brought him up. I have to bring him up in this instance of what you asked me because the system is not equal to each rider. It depends on who the rider is. THis has been brought up by Zarco at one of the press conferences and Jorge in previous press conferences.
So in summary if everything was equal i have no problem with Marquez getting no points if historically the same would have happened to Flopsi in the past but unfortunately its not the same for each rider.
This is why although marc was aggressive in argentina he should not have lost the points do to race direction history.
Let me ask you this and answer honestly not with yellow glasses on.
1 if marc would have been danny with the dovi lorenzo danny crash would there have been an uproar? (my answer yes because marc is running away with it so they have to keep it close)
2 if marc was the slower rider in Argentina and flopsi made the pass and Marc fell would the media have said it was fine and would flopsi have got a penalty? (we all know nothing would have happened to flopsi)
3 why wasnt flopsi penalized for sepang? as if you watch argentina race what marc did to flopsi wasnt that bad he had the line vs what flopsi did in sepang and he kept a third place finish and got nothing done to him except penalty points.
remember if he didn't get a penalty point earlier in the season nothing would have happened in valencia as 3 points do nothing to you.
Last edited:
Mark419ny, first of all let me start by saying that was one of the most reasonable and well articulated posts I read from you.
Although I don't agree with some of your points, you explained your point of view clearly and in a thoughtful way.
I just think that's time to move on and judge today's actions alone and in their own merit. Even Race Direction as done so, by telling everyone that from now on the sanctions and penalties will be harder. (If they have succeded with this new system is clearly open to debate due to some questionable penalties that have or not been handed out (the name Aaron Canet comes to mind)).
If you are always stuck in the past and in what penalties or lack there of have been imposed in the past, the sport and the job of RD will never improve.
That's like telling the officer that just handed you a ticket for speeding that 5 minutes ago another rider passed you way faster than you were going and he did nothing. I bet you would be ticketed anyway.
Moving on to your questions, and I'll reply without glasses of any colour, shape or form and trying to answer without any bias (as I said, I admire both riders equally for their talents and I can also judge them for their faults):
1. I agree. If it were Marquez instead of Dani, I think a lot more ink would be put on paper.
I don't see how Dani could be blamed for that crash and I don't buy the argument that he is behind, so he is the one that can see what's happening in front of him and anticipate the future.
So, if it were Marquez doing exactly the same at the same place, I wouldn't put any blame on him either but I definitely think that there would be some kind of uproar.
However, when you say "they have to keep it close", I'm not sure to whom you are referring to (the powers that be, Dorna? the media?).
I don't think that that uprar would be due to some plot against Marquez. It would be due to the fact that he is one of the most relevant riders right now and the one that's constantly at the front and under the spotlight.
2. I disagree. Marquez didn't have the line, he came in too hot, there was no room for him to put the bike there. If you check the different angles, including the one from the helicopter, that wasn't the typical block pass where a rider opens the door and the other one takes advantage and forces him to pick up the bike.
There was no room, Rossi was already commited to the apex and Marquez barged through the corner. Even himself acknowledged the severity of his pass since he promptly apologized with his hand.
After the race he recanted and said something about hitting a wet patch (that you can see that wasn't there), but that was just PR.
So to answer your question, in that situation if Rossi and Marquez had reversed their roles, I would blame Rossi just like I blame Marquez and I believe that Rossi would have been penalized.
In 2015 before Sepang, maybe you're right, Rossi wouldn't be penalized for that pass alone. But if you count all the actions and paint swap with other riders of Marquez since the start of the race, then I think if it were Rossi, he would be penalized, be it 2004, 2015 or 2018.
3. As I said above, Marquez didn't have the line and that's easier to see by checking different angles. Nevertheless, it's my opinion Rossi should have been black flagged in Sepang. and then he would have started Valencia according to his qualifying position.
As I said, I was disappointed with Rossi in Sepang since the pre-race press conference. I don't think there was any plot between Marc and Lorenzo against Rossi. Even though I don't believe he kicked Marquez, his actions were inexcusable. He waited for Marquez and ran him to the edge of the track.
Sure they don't like the guy, but nothing more than that. And I even think Marc trully admired Rossi since an early age as he said.
But to answer your, why wasn't Rossi penalized in Sepang? He was, he got penalty points add up to his "account", which together with the penalty point he got earlier in the season, granted him a start from the back of the grid in Valencia.
Was that enough or the right decision? IMO, definitely not as I said above.
Although I don't agree with some of your points, you explained your point of view clearly and in a thoughtful way.
I just think that's time to move on and judge today's actions alone and in their own merit. Even Race Direction as done so, by telling everyone that from now on the sanctions and penalties will be harder. (If they have succeded with this new system is clearly open to debate due to some questionable penalties that have or not been handed out (the name Aaron Canet comes to mind)).
If you are always stuck in the past and in what penalties or lack there of have been imposed in the past, the sport and the job of RD will never improve.
That's like telling the officer that just handed you a ticket for speeding that 5 minutes ago another rider passed you way faster than you were going and he did nothing. I bet you would be ticketed anyway.
Moving on to your questions, and I'll reply without glasses of any colour, shape or form and trying to answer without any bias (as I said, I admire both riders equally for their talents and I can also judge them for their faults):
1. I agree. If it were Marquez instead of Dani, I think a lot more ink would be put on paper.
I don't see how Dani could be blamed for that crash and I don't buy the argument that he is behind, so he is the one that can see what's happening in front of him and anticipate the future.
So, if it were Marquez doing exactly the same at the same place, I wouldn't put any blame on him either but I definitely think that there would be some kind of uproar.
However, when you say "they have to keep it close", I'm not sure to whom you are referring to (the powers that be, Dorna? the media?).
I don't think that that uprar would be due to some plot against Marquez. It would be due to the fact that he is one of the most relevant riders right now and the one that's constantly at the front and under the spotlight.
2. I disagree. Marquez didn't have the line, he came in too hot, there was no room for him to put the bike there. If you check the different angles, including the one from the helicopter, that wasn't the typical block pass where a rider opens the door and the other one takes advantage and forces him to pick up the bike.
There was no room, Rossi was already commited to the apex and Marquez barged through the corner. Even himself acknowledged the severity of his pass since he promptly apologized with his hand.
After the race he recanted and said something about hitting a wet patch (that you can see that wasn't there), but that was just PR.
So to answer your question, in that situation if Rossi and Marquez had reversed their roles, I would blame Rossi just like I blame Marquez and I believe that Rossi would have been penalized.
In 2015 before Sepang, maybe you're right, Rossi wouldn't be penalized for that pass alone. But if you count all the actions and paint swap with other riders of Marquez since the start of the race, then I think if it were Rossi, he would be penalized, be it 2004, 2015 or 2018.
3. As I said above, Marquez didn't have the line and that's easier to see by checking different angles. Nevertheless, it's my opinion Rossi should have been black flagged in Sepang. and then he would have started Valencia according to his qualifying position.
As I said, I was disappointed with Rossi in Sepang since the pre-race press conference. I don't think there was any plot between Marc and Lorenzo against Rossi. Even though I don't believe he kicked Marquez, his actions were inexcusable. He waited for Marquez and ran him to the edge of the track.
Sure they don't like the guy, but nothing more than that. And I even think Marc trully admired Rossi since an early age as he said.
But to answer your, why wasn't Rossi penalized in Sepang? He was, he got penalty points add up to his "account", which together with the penalty point he got earlier in the season, granted him a start from the back of the grid in Valencia.
Was that enough or the right decision? IMO, definitely not as I said above.
Register CTA
Register on Ducati Forum! This sidebar will go away, and you will see fewer ads.
Sign Up
