My crazy wreck ar Beaverun

MrKO said:

Hey, guys thanks for the kind words.

I have been contacted by a few networks. If it all works out, I should be able to have the bike repaired for free (this was my request). But we'll see. Pretty crazy to see yourself nearly getting killed all over TV .

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Whoooot! seeing the vid over and over, i really wonder how you made it. I mean, what did you do when the bike in front of you suddenly gripped and flew up towards you?

Jump? duck? let go?

how many hits do you have now? half a million? theat vid is also on my favorite german site gaskrank.tv ...

Just saw this on Instagram...

Instagram

MrKO said:

Hey, guys thanks for the kind words.

I have been contacted by a few networks. If it all works out, I should be able to have the bike repaired for free (this was my request). But we'll see. Pretty crazy to see yourself nearly getting killed all over TV .

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This whole situation is horrible, but at least there is a potential for a positive resolution. Fingers crossed, hate to see a fellow track junkie go through this.

Holly .... that was a nasty wreck...

Phl said:

Whoooot! seeing the vid over and over, i really wonder how you made it. I mean, what did you do when the bike in front of you suddenly gripped and flew up towards you?

Jump? duck? let go?

how many hits do you have now? half a million? theat vid is also on my favorite german site gaskrank.tv ...

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I actually do remember ducking down to the right. Guess I flew into the bike as mine flipped. Hitting my left shoulder and top of my head (knocking me out). The camera location makes the wreck look a little worse than it was. I mean the bike didnt hit me directly, but then again I did hit it and fly about 30ft.

First off we all have to remember that what we do is not golf, it comes with inherent risks. And in Defense of the CR (and all CR's) they are out there burning up their energy, gas, tires, and brakes as Volunteers!. they are not paid.
I'm friends with many CR's and I see the time and dedication they put in to help people at the track. They go out in the rain, in the cold, when they are tired, etc.
And remember, there are a lot of track orgs out there that don't offer much of anything for CR's or Coaches.
Many places you have to pay for the extra attention.
I've spent my time behind CR's waiting for a wave by too, just like a lot of you, but remember, the number one goal of the CR's is your safety, not to piss you off, or hold you back. Also, remember, Don't sit 5 bike lengths behind a CR in a twisty section and then get mad that they didn't turn around (in a turn) and see you and give you a wave by. If you want them to see you, show em a wheel, let them know you are there.

Are they all perfect all the time, maybe not, but none of us are. That particular CR has had nothing but great things said about him, and he is a Very Capable rider. I have sympathy for him, as he now has a very nice bike (lots of pricey parts) on it that was wrecked. and he ended up in the hospital. (not the guy in front that crossed the track)
What a lot of people don't see is how the rider in front chopped the throttle and tried swerving over to pit in at the last minute. Without a hand up mind you. He also happens to be one of the riders that had already been talked to that morning about poor pit in procedures. (Yes I was there)

I'm glad the injuries weren't worse, and heck, maybe you will even make some money off the video to help pay for repairs (as I recall someone at the track offered to send you a new set of bodywork for your bike for free)

I hope to see all parties back at the track in good spirits. And I also hope the first rider "listens" to the rules a little better next time.
Ok Rant over

chrisplm said:

First off we all have to remember that what we do is not golf, it comes with inherent risks. And in Defense of the CR (and all CR's) they are out there burning up their energy, gas, tires, and brakes as Volunteers!. they are not paid.
I'm friends with many CR's and I see the time and dedication they put in to help people at the track. They go out in the rain, in the cold, when they are tired, etc.
And remember, there are a lot of track orgs out there that don't offer much of anything for CR's or Coaches.
Many places you have to pay for the extra attention.
I've spent my time behind CR's waiting for a wave by too, just like a lot of you, but remember, the number one goal of the CR's is your safety, not to piss you off, or hold you back. Also, remember, Don't sit 5 bike lengths behind a CR in a twisty section and then get mad that they didn't turn around (in a turn) and see you and give you a wave by. If you want them to see you, show em a wheel, let them know you are there.

Are they all perfect all the time, maybe not, but none of us are. That particular CR has had nothing but great things said about him, and he is a Very Capable rider. I have sympathy for him, as he now has a very nice bike (lots of pricey parts) on it that was wrecked. and he ended up in the hospital. (not the guy in front that crossed the track)
What a lot of people don't see is how the rider in front chopped the throttle and tried swerving over to pit in at the last minute. Without a hand up mind you. He also happens to be one of the riders that had already been talked to that morning about poor pit in procedures. (Yes I was there)

I'm glad the injuries weren't worse, and heck, maybe you will even make some money off the video to help pay for repairs (as I recall someone at the track offered to send you a new set of bodywork for your bike for free)

I hope to see all parties back at the track in good spirits. And I also hope the first rider "listens" to the rules a little better next time.
Ok Rant over

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Chis, this is the only forum I have said a word about how I felt on the situation. I was mum on facebook and on my youtube video. I was wondering if you were a member here. I have been told by many that Scott is/was (hes old now ) an amazing rider. I am sorry he got hurt in his own wreck, glad I didnt die in his wreck .... you feel me? My first ride on that bike. Full Superbike built motor, decked out. What you want me to feel sorry ? I agree Jarvis (red bike) chopped the throttle, but was the distance in which Scott was executing the pass necessary. Could he have made a much safe pass just as easily ?? Why did he have to be so close? I think these are valid questions. You guys need to stop, it was on both guys man. The idea of safe following distance applies in all motorsports unless you are racing, we were not racing.
I was offered parts at the track, I did not know who that was at the time that I was talking to him (I also had a concussion at the time). I have not heard anything about it, and really I wasnt expecting to. I was more hurt that not a single person followed up or even came over to me. And I had owners of other orgs contact me , along with many other people. So ya, it put a little bit of a bad taste in my mouth.
Chris, you helped me (a ton) with my first track day at Summit on my 1199. Your a good guy. I am sure all of you guys are, but the way NESBA CR's ride are a bit unlike any other org. For better and for worse.

P.S.
I havent made a dime from MY VIDEO and may make about a grand if I'm lucky. So dont let all press confuse you with the real deal. Its just one of thousands of crazy videos on the internet. I actually almost took it down.

chrisplm said:

First off we all have to remember that what we do is not golf, it comes with inherent risks. And in Defense of the CR (and all CR's) they are out there burning up their energy, gas, tires, and brakes as Volunteers!. they are not paid.
I'm friends with many CR's and I see the time and dedication they put in to help people at the track. They go out in the rain, in the cold, when they are tired, etc.
And remember, there are a lot of track orgs out there that don't offer much of anything for CR's or Coaches.
Many places you have to pay for the extra attention.
I've spent my time behind CR's waiting for a wave by too, just like a lot of you, but remember, the number one goal of the CR's is your safety, not to piss you off, or hold you back. Also, remember, Don't sit 5 bike lengths behind a CR in a twisty section and then get mad that they didn't turn around (in a turn) and see you and give you a wave by. If you want them to see you, show em a wheel, let them know you are there.

Are they all perfect all the time, maybe not, but none of us are. That particular CR has had nothing but great things said about him, and he is a Very Capable rider. I have sympathy for him, as he now has a very nice bike (lots of pricey parts) on it that was wrecked. and he ended up in the hospital. (not the guy in front that crossed the track)
What a lot of people don't see is how the rider in front chopped the throttle and tried swerving over to pit in at the last minute. Without a hand up mind you. He also happens to be one of the riders that had already been talked to that morning about poor pit in procedures. (Yes I was there)

I'm glad the injuries weren't worse, and heck, maybe you will even make some money off the video to help pay for repairs (as I recall someone at the track offered to send you a new set of bodywork for your bike for free)

I hope to see all parties back at the track in good spirits. And I also hope the first rider "listens" to the rules a little better next time.
Ok Rant over

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just for clarification purposes - are you saying CR's get zero compensation for their work ? This includes anything of value that may be given 'in kind' ? somehow i seriously doubt that. just because you dont actually pocket the money doesnt mean you didnt gain a benefit that others had to pay for.

what i dont understand is why can't we just say a huge mistake was made ? riders down, red flags out so its pretty obvious but yet nesba/n2 wants to circle the wagons and spin it into someone else's mistake. it's so bad its obvious they have banned any and all discussion of it on the nesba/n2 message boards. looks like more circling the wagons to try more coverups...

It's never nice being involved in a accident especially when other riders are involved things happen really quickly out there and mistakes will happen even at the highest level.
I feel sorry for everyone that gets involved in a track incident like this it can weigh heavily on all parties involved especially when everyone is viewing it on youtube .
Your bike can be fixed just thank god or someone as equal as him that no was killed .
I had a major crash racing last year where my bike took another rider out it destroyed his bike and mine and he ended up I hospital it played a major part in me giving up racing knowing how close we came to dying as it was very high speed crash.
The most important thing is to forget who's fault it may be everyone else will have a opinion but in reality it's none of their business .

I hope you can move on from this and not let it effect your love for the track as it has done to me I hope to be back there soon myself .

At 5 seconds there is a red flag and at 15 seconds a rider puts his hand up and slows down ( probably in response to the red flag). CR should have seen the flag, CR are there to maintain control but unfortunately many take this as an opportunity to play. Even though it's a racetrack it's not a race and if a CR sees someone riding erratic they should maintain a gap or pull the person in to show them the line.

Rider in front was slowing and CR was moving to the right. I've never been to N2 or NESBA and I wonder how detailed are the instructions for red clad protocol.

1. put up hand or leg out to signal you will be doing something abnormal
2. Move off racing line(as someone could have spilled oil on track)
3. Slow down to some agreed speed , no passing/racing

Accidents do happen, riders have brain fade or suffer from delayed reaction but this can be minimized by proper training and discipline or CR and riders alike.
Some organizations are run better than others and have reduced occurrences of this kind of avoidable I incident.

sifubs said:

At 5 seconds there is a red flag and at 15 seconds a rider puts his hand up and slows down ( probably in response to the red flag). CR should have seen the flag, CR are there to maintain control but unfortunately many take this as an opportunity to play. Even though it's a racetrack it's not a race and if a CR sees someone riding erratic they should maintain a gap or pull the person in to show them the line.

Rider in front was slowing and CR was moving to the right. I've never been to N2 or NESBA and I wonder how detailed are the instructions for red clad protocol.

1. put up hand or leg out to signal you will be doing something abnormal
2. Move off racing line(as someone could have spilled oil on track)
3. Slow down to some agreed speed , no passing/racing

Accidents do happen, riders have brain fade or suffer from delayed reaction but this can be minimized by proper training and discipline or CR and riders alike.
Some organizations are run better than others and have reduced occurrences of this kind of avoidable I incident.

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Didn't see that one . There was clearly a red flag waving at 34 seconds both riders should have been off the gas at that point .
I think it's fair to say everyone played their part .

wilkson said:

Didn't see that one . There was clearly a red flag waving at 34 seconds both riders should have been off the gas at that point .
I think it's fair to say everyone played their part .

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Criticism can be leveled at the lead rider for not making his/her intentions more clear. BUT, as was constantly drilled in to me by everyone from race school to race directors at riders meetings -

It is the responsibility of the overtaking rider to make the pass safely.

Period.

Charliem90 said:

Criticism can be leveled at the lead rider for not making his/her intentions more clear. BUT, as was constantly drilled in to me by everyone from race school to race directors at riders meetings -

It is the responsibility of the overtaking rider to make the pass safely.

Period.

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Where Im from a red flag means to put your hand up slow down and leave the track and no passing .
So if your going to pull it apart no one should be doing any over taking everyone off the gas and everyone exiting the track . I think the rule is quite universal . Basic session is over .
Yellow flag still no over taking but stay on track until you see green . You guys have different rules ?


So if you want to be technical dude in orange top should be off the gas ready to exit track like the guy in front was trying to do without indicating he was doing ,so really everyone played a part .

wilkson said:

Where Im from a red flag means to put your hand up slow down and leave the track and no passing .
So if your going to pull it apart no one should be doing any over taking everyone off the gas and everyone exiting the track . I think the rule is quite universal . Basic session is over .
Yellow flag still no over taking but stay on track until you see green . You guys have different rules ?


So if you want to be technical dude in orange top should be off the gas ready to exit track like the guy in front was trying to do without indicating he was doing ,so really everyone played a part .

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it's the same here, I can only think the CR rider did not see the red flag.

wilkson said:

Where Im from a red flag means to put your hand up slow down and leave the track and no passing .
So if your going to pull it apart no one should be doing any over taking everyone off the gas and everyone exiting the track . I think the rule is quite universal . Basic session is over .
Yellow flag still no over taking but stay on track until you see green . You guys have different rules ?


So if you want to be technical dude in orange top should be off the gas ready to exit track like the guy in front was trying to do without indicating he was doing ,so really everyone played a part .

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Thats the point which is what everyone has been harping on.. . actually at :05 seconds there is a biker down. Control Riders should automatically know that that usually means a red flag is coming out (and they usually might have a part in that. Not only did this CR see and ignore that, but actually said that when they were passing, that that rider was on her knees and getting up. Clearly on the video this rider was NOT on her knees and getting up. Then as other riders are signaling with their arms up, the CR keeps weaving through and ignoring what should be obvious conditions. . At the last turn, CR states that corner worker did not have a red flag up when he was going through the apex, but at the :31 second mark, you can clearly see the corner worker waving the red flag quite vigorously while the bikes are at the apex of the turn. .

As mentioned previously, there is a lot of cover your ass going on - including the entire organization banning any sort of discussion on the matter and not taking any responsibility or acknowledgement of their part in the matter. . .

Many are pointing to the first rider not putting a hand up. . lets be clear - that motion is for his own safety that he is doing something differently to signal riders behind. . . He /should/ have raised his hand /before/ he perhaps slowed down. But as others have also states, its the responsibility of the passing/overtaking rider to clear all obstacles in front and its his responsibility to pass regardless of the speeds of the bikes in front. . It's also the responsibility of the CR/instructor to maintain a safe riding situation out on track and to ignore a down rider that in high likelihood would signal a red to roll ambulances, and then ignore an actual waving red flag is in my book, almost inexcusable. .

I mean seriously - man up. Say I screwed up, something should have clicked in my head on the down rider as a CR. I must have missed the red flag that was waving and shouldn't have done what I was doing, instead of this - rider was getting up, there was no red flag and rider in front slowed down and all the other excuses. As an org, use it as a teaching exercise for your control riders/instructors and for your riders. Stop trying to act like it never happened.

reganc said:

it's the same here, I can only think the CR rider did not see the red flag.

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No, control rider/instructor claimed he saw the corner worker but there was no red flag waving while he was through the apex of the turn. Looks pretty obvious to me, and corner worker wouldn't be able to just bring out the red flag to start waving in the 1/2 second right before its pretty obvious he's waving the red flag.

And yes wilkson, red flags in our country mean the same as in yours.

A. did the control rider control the riding of the group or its participants in a safely manner ? (as one would define it part of the task of a control rider - that strongly depends on the track org., its philosophy, its people/participants and their attitude)

B. did the CR ride the .... out of his bike, maybe knowing that he was being filmed and took a higher risk to "show off"

Poll anyone?

I did not see the red flag as well. Had I seen it, no matter. We dont slow for tge red, you get off the track. Fast and safe. We were also told to start pitting out at the kink on the back straight.

The CYA going on is by lawyers orders I'm sure. CRs/coaches/instructors are looked at by lawyers are employees of the org. A mistake by them is grounds to file a lawsuit, regardless of the assumption of the inherent danger of the hobby. I know of a trackday org owner that doesnt let the coaches put names on their vests. He told me a coach was towing a rider, rider crashed and claimed coach was at fault for going to fast and sued. The owner was very upset because while he is prepared for possible lawsuits, they named the coach in the suit too.I'm sure the order came down to shut up.

MrKO said:

I did not see the red flag as well. Had I seen it, no matter. We dont slow for tge red, you get off the track. Fast and safe.

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Their rulebook says otherwise -

"Red Flag : Displayed at all stations. The session is over due to an unsafe situation. Slow down smoothly and bring your bike into the pits. "
http://www.n2td.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/N2-Riders-Manual-2014-FINAL.pdf

mrbrettbaker said:

The CYA going on is by lawyers orders I'm sure. CRs/coaches/instructors are looked at by lawyers are employees of the org. A mistake by them is grounds to file a lawsuit, regardless of the assumption of the inherent danger of the hobby.

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I suspect the CRs/instructors are independent contractors rather than employees of the organization.

I was an off-road M/C instructor for years at American Honda in Alpharetta, GA in their off-road program. Was not an employee of American Honda. Considered a certified contractor.