Ok so we hear the rumor and we see a mockup of a bike. Has anyone or does anyone know of anyone who has seen the new carbon pieces?. The wheels do exist. BST has had them for a bit (not for sale yet). BST is NOT the contractor for a swingarm or a frame for Ducati which they should be as they have a proven track record. The "proposed" contractor is a firm in Germany. There is a frame for the 1199 from this mfg but I was told that it was never structural. Proof of concept, which is a long way from "road worthy" All of this is nifty but the real question is "why"?. If you are coming out with a new power plant for the flagship model, do you spend the money on R&D and tooling to do another SL on a platform that is being phased out? This makes little sense to me. First it makes little financial sense and second, am I going to be pissed that I buy this thing and shortly after that, a completely new model comes out? As fantastic as the Panigale is, there has to be a successor in the works. Thoughts?
New 1299 SL Has this really been thought through?
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I'm guessing the German firm is Carbon Sigl, which has sold the carbon frame to the public. Here is a track test with it, going to have to google translate it though.
Tracktest Carbon-Sigl-, Hertrampf- und IDM-Ducati 1199 Panigale S - Vergleichstest - MOTORRAD
Tracktest Carbon-Sigl-, Hertrampf- und IDM-Ducati 1199 Panigale S - Vergleichstest - MOTORRAD
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Why not make another 40 million on the 500 bikes produced before the model goes away completely...... They also figure if you have the money to spend 80k then you have the money to buy the next up and coming model.
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They have it listed on their web site. Says to email for inquiries. Might be a bit more information available that way. I am not sure that the carbon piece is really going to save any weight of the magnesium one. What does the magnesium piece in the SL weigh?
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The swingarm could be cool if they really put some effort into playing with the flex characteristics and gave you something along the lines of what they would use in WSBK if they were allowed to. But it would be much better if it came from the Corse division IMHO. Then you could legitimately make a claim to using Moto GP tech on the special edition.
Granted, I don't know who Ducati is/was farming out those GP parts to in the first place. If they are coming from the same place, then cool. Otherwise I personally would have some concerns over it. Like you, I question the decision to not use BST on that one.
As far as why make it? Well, it's a halo piece, marketing exercise. Not only will they turn a profit on the units sold directly, but the hype and marketing generated by it will keep things humming along until they can crank out the next model. Hell, it may be funding efforts for that. I don't really hate Ducati for trying it. They have to grab as much cash as they can, when they can. No different that Ferrari or Porsche special editions IMHO.
Granted, I don't know who Ducati is/was farming out those GP parts to in the first place. If they are coming from the same place, then cool. Otherwise I personally would have some concerns over it. Like you, I question the decision to not use BST on that one.
As far as why make it? Well, it's a halo piece, marketing exercise. Not only will they turn a profit on the units sold directly, but the hype and marketing generated by it will keep things humming along until they can crank out the next model. Hell, it may be funding efforts for that. I don't really hate Ducati for trying it. They have to grab as much cash as they can, when they can. No different that Ferrari or Porsche special editions IMHO.
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good point
although I would guess they profit "make" $10,000 on each unit so maybe 5 million
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The first SL came out, a year later I have the same (almost) engine. I would hope that in a year the 1299 SL engine would be available in something. I know, I know, you don't think another Panigale is coming, but it might go into something!?
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hopefully, a well thought out pani-based Streetfighter; sans carbon rims, "frame" & swingarm!
Most modern commercial aircraft are chock full of carbon fiber composites and are subject to higher stresses and designed for roughly a 20 year service life and in the air 15 hours per day. I don't think you need to worry about a motorcycle application providing the manufacturing standards are stringent.
If you are talking about Carbon Sigl, their frame is lighter than the one of the 1299SL. Mine is 1231g. And yes... It's for real! ;-)
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Formula 1 has used CF for almost 25 years by now (early 1980s with the adoption of carbon fibre composite materials), granted that these cars/monocoque "only" last for 1/2 a season (give or take anywhere from 10 - 21 races). In F1 the g forces and stress on the material should be way greater than on a motorcycle.
Not an expert, my 2 cents...
Not an expert, my 2 cents...
That's certainly a valid point. I only stress the factor of adhesion and compliance with regard to monitoring integrity of these pieces in aerospace and F1 vs your neighbors garage. I know for a fact that Boeing and Airbus simulate thousands and thousands of cycles during certification. I'm pretty certain there is a test cycle for CF motorcycle parts but I'm willing to bet a lot of mathematical probability calculations have been interjected in place of actual life cycle. Case in point. A neighbor I ride with has ridden a CF Pinerello road frame for 18 months without issue. He then crashed the bike on a low side fall. No detectable damage other than cosmetic. Less than a month later the seat stay separated the rear drop out. On a slight assent. The frame was done after the initial crash. Now this is coming from someone who ownes a lot of CF. I just choose to be selective where I employ what I own. A structural part that does not benefit from being CF, in my book does not get constructed of CF and there isn't a structural part on a street ridden motorcycle that in my book fits that criteria.
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When you see what they can do in terms of CF and supercars, I don't why a swing arm wouldn't be possible... Koenigsegg is making almost everything CF these days, from the tub to the wheels and they can handle quite a bit of power ah!
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I am no aircraft engineer but I know Boeing are only using CF on airfoils that are not critical if they fail. I recall a scaled P51 Mustang project aircraft called the Thunder Mustang. It claimed stress test on the wings up to 9g. Later on a test flight their chief pilot pulled a lot less g than that and snapped one wing off. He did not survive.
I visited a mate of mine in Hospital only a few months ago that shattered his front carbon wheel. He hit the brakes hard and off the track at the same time. Lost it at about 170 kmph. I like the look of shiny carbon but.....
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