New Panigale V4 is ugly?

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Is the New Panigale ugly?

  • I like the older look more

  • I like the new design best

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Paul G said:
Stop making .... up
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Here’s a video on the FEA of a GP swingarm. Red means higher stress. Note that it’s at the axle. Underslung also helps w controlling torsion better than standard swingarms bc the triangulation is closer to the loading point
 
SuperDomestique said:
DSSA has disadvantages. The lateral flex will bind at the axle somewhat (especially if there’s 37% more flex) so it’s not all roses. SSSA will flex torsionally which may have its advantages.
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Lateral flex will bind the axle, err dont think so, its not the 1940's with swingarms made from 2 waterpipes welded to a pivot. SSSA's can flex any which way the designers intend but I suspect that the DSSA is easier to work with, cheaper and lighter. All good reasons to go that route, SSSA are or were a marketing point of difference that could no longer be justified if the Panigale platform was to progress.
 
RoadracerX who has MANY bikes, and is VERY fast, describes the Ducati’s as having a unique feeling when you go very fast on them at track, says they feel like the tires are on marbles when at the edge of grip on the limits, in a way that other bikes don’t. It’s one of the reasons why he doesn’t take his R out when he wants to be on a liter bike and go fast. He just doesn’t love that ‘on marbles’ feeling.

I’m wondering if he’ll say the same thing with the new swing arm, and if it was the lack of lateral flex compared to other bikes that causes that feeling.

I personally never got that feeling, but I’m also not nearly as fast as him.
 
I’m holding off on ordering it, although I’m tempted.

Will wait for the R, cause i think I’ll kick myself if i don’t.

Also, I suspect that the improved electronic with that rear braking cornering assist is going to be a game changer, I use the rear brake the way they are making the new V4 do for you. Most people don’t use the rear brake at all, but it’s a great tooI that’s hard to get use to using, when you do you feel like you should have started using it sooner, the new bike does it for you…I feel pretty confident that all but a pro rider will go faster on this bike than they would on just about anything else. BUT I’m not sure that complex of an electronic assist setup is what i want. The RC 8C I’m riding this season is almost completely analogue, no abs, barely has anti-wheelie, and I’m finding that i really like less electronics and and more analogue riding experience. Not sure all those electronic rider aids will be as fun. Though I’m certain it will be faster.
 
Paul G said:
Lateral flex will bind the axle, err dont think so, its not the 1940's with swingarms made from 2 waterpipes welded to a pivot. SSSA's can flex any which way the designers intend but I suspect that the DSSA is easier to work with, cheaper and lighter. All good reasons to go that route, SSSA are or were a marketing point of difference that could no longer be justified if the Panigale platform was to progress.
Click to expand...

Stop making .... up
 
Paul G said:
Lateral flex will bind the axle, err dont think so, its not the 1940's with swingarms made from 2 waterpipes welded to a pivot.
Click to expand...

Here's a simplified drawing of a DSSA as seen from above. Grey bar is the axle. When a lateral force is applied, the arms of swingarm deflect and the constrained axle, which was initially perpendicular to the arms, is now at an angle and therefore stressed. When things are stressed, they bend. That's why you see in that FEA video that higher stresses are at the axle because it's twisting there. Also the bearings are going to be torn between running parallel to the axle shaft and also the sides of the swingarm that's now at an angle.

Screenshot 2024-07-28 at 11.09.06 PM.png
Ducati went with a DSSA because it was cheaper. The flex characteristics and lightness are just marketing BS. I'd bet you can bend the ends of the new V4 swingarm by hand more than you think you could.

And if you don’t believe me, give this paper a read

 
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Sure sure, thats why all MotoGP bikes, all the other litrebikes, also one of the sweetest handling ducks the 999 have DSSA. Because its cheap!

The amount of deflection you are talking about is minimal, not enough to bind the axle in any meaningful way, how do I know this? One of my first bikes way back in the 70's was this beauty;

7-1.jpg


See that swingarm, it was made from cheese and it never "bound up" it weaved like .... and felt awful but binding due to twist, flex and deflection was not the issue. Modern swingarms are built to handle forces that are orders of magnitude greater than this old bike had to deal with.
 
SuperDomestique said:
Here's a simplified drawing of a DSSA as seen from above. Grey bar is the axle. When a lateral force is applied, the arms of swingarm deflect and the constrained axle, which was initially perpendicular to the arms, is now at an angle and therefore stressed. When things are stressed, they bend. That's why you see in that FEA video that higher stresses are at the axle because it's twisting there. Also the bearings are going to be torn between running parallel to the axle shaft and also the sides of the swingarm that's now at an angle.

View attachment 55752
Ducati went with a DSSA because it was cheaper. The flex characteristics and lightness are just marketing BS. I'd bet you can bend the ends of the new V4 swingarm by hand more than you think you could.

And if you don’t believe me, give this paper a read

Click to expand...

The math analysis in your attached paper is sound, but uses an ancient, terrible handling bike, that only one person on the planet could ride effectively, as an example of good design. Honda actually went to Kalex for a swingarm design because the perfect design, according to the Honda engineering analysis math, just sucked in actual use. Anyway, mathematics loads software is great for loads analysis, but actual in-use testing under the actual loads determine the best design.

Just sayin’ don’t bet the farm on pure design analysis software/math. The real application via testing determines the best design. The math works, but it doesn’t trump reality.
 
ducfan69 said:
Is there a- New Panigale is Ugly thread yet? I’m a huge Pani V4 fan but :/ can we talk about the elephant in the room, or do you all like it?
Click to expand...
I like it, not to say the previous generation isn't amazing, but I love the idea of such an iconic brand putting performance over aesthetics. Also, I think they purposely made it a little homely to sell aftermarket parts. I know the first thing I'm doing when I get mine is getting carbon winglets and an exhaust. The monotone is what what throws me off the most and no V4S badging
 
SuperDomestique said:
Here's a simplified drawing of a DSSA as seen from above. Grey bar is the axle. When a lateral force is applied, the arms of swingarm deflect and the constrained axle, which was initially perpendicular to the arms, is now at an angle and therefore stressed. When things are stressed, they bend. That's why you see in that FEA video that higher stresses are at the axle because it's twisting there. Also the bearings are going to be torn between running parallel to the axle shaft and also the sides of the swingarm that's now at an angle.

View attachment 55752
Ducati went with a DSSA because it was cheaper. The flex characteristics and lightness are just marketing BS. I'd bet you can bend the ends of the new V4 swingarm by hand more than you think you could.

And if you don’t believe me, give this paper a read

Click to expand...

That kind of knowledge should at least get you into the inters…. Well done!
 
I was on the fence about upgrading to a 24’ V4S, but after seeing the 25’ pulled the trigger on one before they are all gone. Future classic. While I’m sure the 25’ is better in chasing .01’s on the track I’m betting it’s going to be an Albatros. The last gen has to be one of the most gorgeous motorcycles ever made and it’s still has way more capabilities than I do
 
Last edited:
mmg said:
I like it, not to say the previous generation isn't amazing, but I love the idea of such an iconic brand putting performance over aesthetics. Also, I think they purposely made it a little homely to sell aftermarket parts. I know the first thing I'm doing when I get mine is getting carbon winglets and an exhaust. The monotone is what what throws me off the most and no V4S badging
Click to expand...

Easy to tart it up a bit with a livery or some decals, it’s a blank canvas.
 
Paul G said:
Sure sure, thats why all MotoGP bikes, all the other litrebikes, also one of the sweetest handling ducks the 999 have DSSA. Because its cheap!

The amount of deflection you are talking about is minimal, not enough to bind the axle in any meaningful way, how do I know this? One of my first bikes way back in the 70's was this beauty;

7-1.jpg


See that swingarm, it was made from cheese and it never "bound up" it weaved like .... and felt awful binding due to twist, flex and deflection was not the issue. Modern swingarms are built to handle forces that are orders of magnitude greater than this old bike had to deal with.
Click to expand...

In the long view these were probably the scariest things I ever rode. On ...... pavement these were flat terrifying.
 
Steven31371 said:
Easy to tart it up a bit with a livery or some decals, it’s a blank canvas.
Click to expand...

Awhile ago I bought a corvette. While I was looking at them I said to my buddy i didn't like the looks. He said does it work good and do you like the dash? If so why do you care what the outside looks like? So I bought it, the looks grew on me.
 
37NG900X said:
I was on the fence about upgrading to a 24’ V4S, but after seeing the 25’ pulled the trigger on one before they are all gone. Future classic. While I’m sure the 25’ is better in chasing .01’s on the track I’m betting it’s going to be an Albatros. The last gen has to be one of the most gorgeous motorcycles ever made and it’s still has way more capabilities than I do
Click to expand...

sound reasoning. gonna be an Albatros for sure
 
What's the point of a price cap when it's just for one manufacturer and it's just increased to meet their demands? It's still going to be a servicing/warranty nightmare unless they've come up with some miracle alloy
 

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