I think that’s what I said.
New Panigale V4 is ugly?
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I think that’s what I said.
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You said SD was right…. Ffs
Only if he said what I had already said.
It’s far more likely that Steven simply got confused about who said what when.
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Why should improved ergonomics and electronic features reduce the pleasure of riding (I have no experience with this type of motorcycles)? As for the cost, yes they are expensive but at the end of the day we are spending money for a Ducati not a Honda, it may sound a bit cliché but it is like comparing Honda with Ferrari
. To be honest, I used to work in a motorcycle dealership but I have never seen a motorcycle with such quality materials as Ducati, everywhere I touched felt luxurious to me, unfortunately I could not see this in other brands. (When your knowledge is compared to mine, if your knowledge is an ocean, mine is a drop from it )
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Why should improved ergonomics and electronic features reduce the pleasure of riding (I have no experience with this type of motorcycles)? As for the cost, yes they are expensive but at the end of the day we are spending money for a Ducati not a Honda, it may sound a bit cliché but it is like comparing Honda with Ferrari
We all love Ducati here, that’s WHY we own them and are here at the forum.
But these days other manufacturers are catching up to them. In terms of quality of the build Honda might actually be tops…though WAY less sexy and finished looking than a Ducati.
The new bike is phenomenal, the problem for me is that the pricing model seems to treat their client base like idiots these days, like we will pay any price just because it’s a Ducati, regardless of bang for your buck in performance that you can get elsewhere.
Speaking of Ferrari…there is a famous quote from Enzo Ferrari where he publicly said that ‘the people who by his road cars are idiots, because they could build something just as fast for less than half the money, but those idiots fund my racing hobby so I love them’
To me it looks like Ducati is doing the same thing now…pricing in a way that only an ..... would buy their bike solely because it’s a Ducati. Because there are several bikes out there now that are at least as fast that cost half the money.
I personally just don’t like buying something where the seller makes me feel like an ...... I don’t buy Ducati’s for the cache of owning a Ducati…I buy them because they are the best performing and funnest sexiest bikes out there.
But other manufacturers are making stuff that is right there with Ducati in terms of performance if not sexiness. Now that Ducati is apply ‘.... You ..... Pricing’ to their biz model they are getting me to re-..... my brand loyalty.
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Sort of continuing along these lines, if the V4 Panis continue to escalate in price and speed, becoming less accessible to the normal rider (yes, I know they are more expensive than "normal"), but as the Panis get too fast for the street (and yes I know they are already too fast for the street) but I'm wondering what this is going to do the V2 Panigales. The Bayliss is 23kUSD and it's not like that is cheap, but it is a good road going sport bike. So, now the V2 is getting a new engine, which is going to be bigger and better? I guess my question is, what is Ducati's long game? If the V4 turns into an inaccessible space ship of a bike, that is going to put a lot of focus on the V2 - which is an excellent road sportbike.
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The middleweight market is exploding right now. I'm stoked to see what the update to the V2 will be in November. I'm in no hurry to sell or trade in my 2021 V4S, but if I were to consider a replacement bike right now, it would be a V2.
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Ducati has already figured out that they can’t really make the V4 faster and more powerful, now they are focused on making that bike more ride-able and the power more accessible. I actually really like what they’re doing.
I just don’t like the ‘you’ll buy it at any price because your a good Ducatista’ business model they are adopting.
If I were solely riding the bike on the street I’d be okay with that, I’d treat it like a Ferrari and be willing to pay a premium for the mix of sexy performance. And as that’s probably most Ducati buyers so I think they’ll do fine with that model.
But for better or worse I’ve become a track only rider that cares about performance more than anything else, I’d pay a premium (and have) for a far superior track bike, Ducati was that. But now there are at least two bikes that are arguably better for track performance. While Ducati is doubling down on their premium performance pricing. They are now charging 30% more for 5% less performance instead of 20% for 15% better performance.
I’m TRYING to get there because I love the bikes, but the math for track performance just isn’t matching right now.
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Funny thing is, I’m writing all this in an attempt to do the sensible thing and buy what’s probably a better bike for less money, because I REALLY want the Ducati 
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Love how y’all are now seeing what I said 20 pages ago
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TLDR Ducati dealer YouTube channel says newest model the best ever and they’ll sell you one. What were you expecting?
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Funny thing is, I’m writing all this in an attempt to do the sensible thing and buy what’s probably a better bike for less money, because I REALLY want the Ducati
Despite the marketing and the "improvements" there is no real reason to upgrade to the newer model for most current V4 owners if their bikes are still giving good service.. It's not the sea change from twin to a four. Sure its "better" but what does that even mean if you are 20 or 30 seconds off the lap record? Newness is seductive, but going fast is 90% rider which is why that guy on a K5 Gixxer is disappearing into the distance despite ones best efforts with a bike that costs 5 times as much. At this point when I upgrade, about 20,000 miles away, it will be a base and Ill only add bling very slowly
A chap on another forum has recently ridden one and reflected the same comments made in the video I posted that compares it with the previous model, saying it felt lighter and more nimble.
That doesn’t surprise me as it felt lighter just sitting on it and rocking it from side to side (not just going from memory - they had the R immediately next to it and I was swapping back and forth between them to compare). I guess they’ve done something with how the weight is distributed. This combined with the very good tank design and slightly narrower pegs is probably enough to make it feel different without other changes that have been made.
I get where you’re coming from @Steven31371 - I’m also trying to talk myself out of getting one.
It’s interesting when you look at some of the alternatives and what you get for the money.
That doesn’t surprise me as it felt lighter just sitting on it and rocking it from side to side (not just going from memory - they had the R immediately next to it and I was swapping back and forth between them to compare). I guess they’ve done something with how the weight is distributed. This combined with the very good tank design and slightly narrower pegs is probably enough to make it feel different without other changes that have been made.
I get where you’re coming from @Steven31371 - I’m also trying to talk myself out of getting one.
It’s interesting when you look at some of the alternatives and what you get for the money.
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^^When hasn't this been the case?
The track version of hate new KTM 990 will be an interesting comparison to the KTM you bought, I and bringing it around to the 25 V4 - 26k vs 40k for 130 hp bike.
The new V2 will be smaller displacement and slower
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That is comparing a base road bike to a very well specified track bike though.
The base Honda with a full Akrapovic works out around €14,000 less than the V4 with a full Akrapovic, which does make you think.
Want versus need I guess.
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Man I just sold my Anniversario yesterday, took it out for a quick ride to shake the cobwebs off of it, hadn’t ridden it in a while. My god that 2020 bike is good, I can’t imagine wanting more than that hahaha.
i talked to the head if Kramer USA who was very forthright trackside about what’s coming out. Kramer is gunna come out with a blingy-er and much more expensive GP? 890RR with CF everywhere.
He wasn’t big on the track version of KTM’s new 990 RC 8. It’s a lot lower spec overall than the RC 8C, doesn’t have the same chassis and tank that define the RC 8C’s track characteristics, will weigh significantly more and will have the same or less HP despite the larger displacement. It’s essentially a watered down RC 8C for the masses. Sick bike but it’s a different category than the RC 8C. There isn’t anything on the horizon at either Kramer or KTM that’s on par with the RC 8C/GP2 890RR.
The RC 8C was essentially the brands HALO bike that sets the stage for a watered down street homolgated version for the masses, which is the new bike. Interesting strategy except with that 990 engine I thinks it’s going to struggle to find a racing class.
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