New Panigale V4 is ugly?

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Is the New Panigale ugly?

  • I like the older look more

  • I like the new design best

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Paul G said:
It's pretty common thinking that the bike that will make the difference, but track riding is a sport where skill = speed, and to get fast you need to do the yards. In car world a bottomless wallet can buy you a platform that gives the illusion of being fast and you're protected by the metal box from the elements but bike world has consequences for hubris. Even if you can afford a factory Ducati and Gigi as your crew chief, it's not going to make a difference until you have the skills to match the bike. Thats why in track day world guys on much older and less refined bikes can blitz lesser skilled riders who have the latest gear. Some bikes make it easy to progress and a Panigale unfortunately is not one of them for most people, but once you get to a certain level they are magic. Sometimes you have to go slower to go faster, I have spoken to more than one good rider who told me they only started to get really fast when they put their liter bike aspirations to one side and got a 400!
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Amen. Ultimately, it's about carrying speed and that's easier to learn on something with less motor. A long time ago, before I raced anything, a friend of mines father taught me to set-up and really drive cars (I was autocrossing). First time he rides with me (of many times), he tells me to start a gear up which effectively negates any real drive and forces me to run the car loose and carry speed. And to understand that it all about weight transfer management. Sorta pounded it in. A true gift to me. Panigales are the wrong bike to learn to go fast on.
 
Sure for some people, but I have spoken to a lot of guys with 959/V2's who struggle until they get the bikes set up correctly and they adjust their style to the bike. All bikes require this but the common thread is that coming from an i4 with a twinspar frame, Panis are not the easiest to get a laptime on.
 
Paul G said:
It's pretty common thinking that the bike that will make the difference, but track riding is a sport where skill = speed, and to get fast you need to do the yards. In car world a bottomless wallet can buy you a platform that gives the illusion of being fast and you're protected by the metal box from the elements but bike world has consequences for hubris. Even if you can afford a factory Ducati and Gigi as your crew chief, it's not going to make a difference until you have the skills to match the bike. Thats why in track day world guys on much older and less refined bikes can blitz lesser skilled riders who have the latest gear. Some bikes make it easy to progress and a Panigale unfortunately is not one of them for most people, but once you get to a certain level they are magic. Sometimes you have to go slower to go faster, I have spoken to more than one good rider who told me they only started to get really fast when they put their liter bike aspirations to one side and got a 400!
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Its quite shocking how many people don't realize that riding quickly, safely and fast is a skill. It's an enormous skill and a lot of it is god given. They honestly feel that just purchasing their 600 means they are now Joe Rocket. Then they will ride around on the city streets and still never spend a few thousand miles up in the mountain's windy roads and actually make some turns where they might learn something. I don't criticize them for this, just like I don't criticize country boys for not knowing how to put on an expensive suit and tie, and you don't criticize city boys for not knowing anything about tractors or other outdoor activities. Everybody gets to live and learn. Still its shocking how not fast people are and how little most riders understand about their chosen hobby. Anybody that has any doubt about what I'm saying needs only to go to their local ride or meet up and ask people if they've had their suspension set up.
 
KarlKani said:
well 899/959/V2 are great bikes to learn how to go fast on. The are also panigales
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I think whatever your first bike is, is the one you learn to go fast on. Mine was a Honda CL70, which after it was beat to death got upgraded to a Yamaha DT175. Some guys have the gift, but there is still some to learn. If you don't have the girt then there is a lot to learn.
 
KarlKani said:
@Steven31371 I truly like your passion and I am looking forward to your progression as you keep at it doing laps and riding cool bikes. But I ask you to speak to someone who has bought a AMA SSTK bike to race at a club level. It is not a bike for an everyday rider, the alpha bmw has corner by corner electronics that require specific mapping per track and while they make it sound like anyone can do it + and any cone can... but you really need a AMA level tech to help with this. Steve Weir is a very nice guy who does try to help most out as much as possible and he will send you a map when he is not busy. I have no idea how usable the HRC SSTK setup is because it's not widely used here, in AMA stock 1000 there were 4 Hondas out of 18 bikes - I would imagine 2-3 of them were actual HRC sstk bikes. I think that number was boosted purely by contingency. Hayden Gillim did better financially this season than most people in SBK + next season prolly more. Will be cool to see if you go this route, but a kit SSTK bike is not gonna be any better for you then an off the rack bike.
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Agreed to all, and I’m starting to waffle back to the Ducati…waffling back and forth.

I do believe that for less money you can build a better bike for a top tier racer out of an RRR…BUT somebody made a point while selling me on the RRR that had the affect of pushing me a bit back toward the Ducati.

They said you can take that new Ducati off the showroom floor and throw some slicks on it and probably set qualifying lap times for MotoAmerica Superstock as a decent A group track day rider…BUT that bike wont win those races. The RRR could though.

When my buddy said that, I thought to myself…”I’m not winning those races on any bike ever in my life at this age 😂😂😂…so if there’s a bike that with some minor tweaks can get me fast enough to qualify for those races that probably good enough for me lol.

I think the software stuff Ducati is doing is cutting edge, but not near its full potential yet, this is just the 1st iteration. If anything the only negative is that as an early adopter you will see bikes in the next two years that do stuff with the platform Ducati is using that’s mind blowing.

Having said that, the RRR still has a class leading front end through the corners, on par with Aprillias through the whole corner though, and you can get to class leading power levels for about $5k extra on the RRR.

Both really great bikes. The RRR has a better front end and probably a better chassis, and more attainable power. The ergos on the new bike are great now. It probably allows you to put more power on the ground while at lean coming out of a corner than the Ducati.

But the Ducati makes up for all that with the electronics it has.

I might get both bikes. They are pretty well stacked against each other on paper. Only way to know is to set both bikes up well and see which one you like best individually.
 
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Steven31371 said:
Did you see him in Australia…dude still has it. Martin was clearly on a better bike but on that day Marquez was the best rider in the world, taking both Martin and Bagnai to school with a 2 year old bike.
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My rationale for that comment was that Honda and all its resources wasn’t able to turn around the monstrosity of a bike that Marquez developed. Marquez and Puig led Honda astray. And he’ll do the same to Ducati.

The reason why Marc is strong on the Ducati is because he didn’t help develop it.
 
Steven31371 said:


Best review I’ve seen yet, gets very interesting at the 3:30 mark.
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Chad did a follow up comparing a previous lap of that circuit on the previous model, with caveats.



CBR is a homologation bike, for what that’s worth. He was blown away by it at the test day but they only got a couple of sessions due to the weather. It’s only actually a few thousand Euros less than the Ducati once you add equivalent forged wheels. I wonder if the Ducati is using the same Ohlins (spool tech).

525 chain setup on the CBR and 520 chain setup on the Pani? Clutching at straws now… 🤣

I’m swinging back and forth between the two. I still think a V4S with very little done to it would be a great track bike. Could no doubt say exactly the same about the CBR with wheels added. The rear brake cheat mode is interesting though.

Have you sat on both of them yet?
 
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spooky said:
Chad did a follow up comparing a previous lap of that circuit on the previous model, with caveats.



CBR is a homologation bike, for what that’s worth. He was blown away by it at the test day but they only got a couple of sessions due to the weather. It’s only actually a few thousand Euros less than the Ducati once you add equivalent forged wheels. I wonder if the Ducati is using the same Ohlins (spool tech).

I’m swinging back and forth between the two. I still think a V4S with very little done to it would be a great track bike. Could no doubt say exactly the same about the CBR with wheels added. The rear brake cheat mode is interesting though.

Have you sat on both of them yet?
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I’ve sat on the RRR but not the new V4 yet. The Honda felt right as rain, felt a lot that RADE tank actually, big wide flat seat, you feel more like you are sitting down into the bike more which I like, rider position and ergos felt spot on. But Ducati seems to have a very similar setup now in the pics.
 
Steven31371 said:
I’ve sat on the RRR but not the new V4 yet. The Honda felt right as rain, felt a lot that RADE tank actually, big wide flat seat, you feel more like you are sitting down into the bike more which I like, rider position and ergos felt spot on. But Ducati seems to have a very similar setup now in the pics.
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Opposite for me - I’ve sat on the new Pani but not even seen the CBR.

The new Pani felt very different to the previous model (the R was sat next to it and I was jumping between the two so I wasn’t just relying on memory). I sat on a bike with the RADE tank the following day and it felt pretty much the same as the new Pani - certainly not wider. It’s a significant improvement.

Keyless ignition on the Honda is annoying though.
 
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spooky said:
Opposite for me - I’ve sat on the new Pani but not even seen the CBR.

The new Pani felt very different to the previous model (the R was sat next to it and I was jumping between the two so I wasn’t just relying on memory). I sat on a bike with the RADE tank the following day and it felt pretty much the same as the new Pani - certainly not wider. It’s a significant improvement.

Keyless ignition on the Honda is annoying though.
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If you do the HRC software you eliminate that ignition if you want.
 
spooky said:
Opposite for me - I’ve sat on the new Pani but not even seen the CBR.

The new Pani felt very different to the previous model (the R was sat next to it and I was jumping between the two so I wasn’t just relying on memory). I sat on a bike with the RADE tank the following day and it felt pretty much the same as the new Pani - certainly not wider. It’s a significant improvement.

Keyless ignition on the Honda is annoying though.
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Very interesting. In much the same way that the profiles of all cars are starting to look similar because of aerodynamic efficiency in the teardrop shape, I suspect must bikes ergos will become very similar because the riding positions are largely the same for all riders.

I’m having a custom MonkeyGripps tank extender made for the RC 8C…I did not look at other tank extenders for guidance, instead I used modeling clay to shape it to fit me and work well in every track riding position…it ended up remarkably like what race teams are building.


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