Question about Brembo RCS Master Cylinder for Brake and Clutch

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Mick1976 said:
No stock lines won't work throw that crap away. I use superbike T and custom lines from Motion SBK all stainless swivel fittings and ti banjos.
Click to expand...

The stainless steel swivel fitting will help with orientation, but will this custom lines from Motion SBK came with some rigid piping at area around the swing arm pivot and close to the exhaust?
The stock lines is part braided line part rigid piping, and a rigid piping will always have better "expansion resistance" compare to flexible line, not to mention heat resistant near the rear exhaust manifold.
I think there are some more rigid lines between the rear master cylinder to the ABS unit, and since there is a long travel from the rear master cylinder to the ABS then back to the rear caliper,
I think the rigid piping will prevent the expansion effect. Maybe if you bypass the ABS thus braided line direct from the rear MC to the caliper which means much shorter braided line and less expansion.

I was about to replace my entire brake line with the Frentubo Carbon braided line until I notice the rigid piping from the stock brake line.

Note: I used to be the exclusive distributor of Goodridge (source it from their UK Exeter office) for my country of origin from 2000 to 2005, and I remember this is part of the knowledge they shared with me.
Also, this is what my experience from modifying my car, the flexible braided line is only for the last connection where there is suspension movement and flexibility is needed.
If you replace all those rigid piping on a car with all flexible braided line, your brake will become mushy due to expansion.
 
Not a factor on the bike. The rigid line are to cut cost and ease installation. If you’re going 8ft in length then cost and rigidity would both be factors. The cost of a rigid line per foot pales in comparison to a foot of Aeroquip-3.
 
endodoc said:
Not a factor on the bike. The rigid line are to cut cost and ease installation. If you’re going 8ft in length then cost and rigidity would both be factors. The cost of a rigid line per foot pales in comparison to a foot of Aeroquip-3.
Click to expand...

That is true, a rigid pipe cost is lower compare to a good braided line, but for this application, you will see a lot of crimping connection between the rigid pipe to the stock braided line back and forth, and those connection will increase manufacturing cost.
I do believe, Ducati is doing this not just to save cost but also there is an engineering reason behind it (heat resistance near the exhaust for example). It always good engineering when an engineer able to create a good system with a bonus of lower cost. But a less costly solution is not always the inferior solution.

My modification goal for this bike is purely cosmetic, however as an engineer myself, I won't do the modification if I think it will not be as good engineering wise as the original (albeit cheaper solution).
That is why I decided not to move forward with replacing my brake line with FrenTubo.

I mean the main goal for a very nice braided brake line is to reduce the expansion effect under pressure, and from my point of view, Ducati solution is a very elegant engineering solution despite it doesn't look as nice.

Yes, the length is 8ft, but if you are going to great length to replace all the master cylinder billet plus a billet monoblock caliper (again to achieve a very solid design to reduce flex), why do you want to introduce expansion from braided line?

Of course if your goal is to built a race bike thus by passing ABS and reduce weight from all those rigid pipes and long braided lines combo and complexity, then going direct with a very short braided line from MC to caliper will be the best solution.
 
Hey Im not trying to convince you of anything. I think it's fairly obvious that you have a reason for doing what you do. All anyone else can offers are examples of what they do. If you can from a physiological perspective manipulate the length of steel braded teflon # 3 commensurate with the length of solid line that you would replace to the point that you can noticeably induce expansion resulting in performance degradation with detectable negative lever modulation feedback then you sir are a true physical specimen with super human senses. I however would not be able to do that there for I chose to run what I saw everyone else that i presumed knew what they were doing run and it worked out pretty well. No i do not run the ABS pump on the bikes however my first replacement lines did incorporate the pump and I can tell you that the braking was excellent. Regardless, carry on my good sir. The build is coming along nicely.
 
endodoc said:
Hey Im not trying to convince you of anything. I think it's fairly obvious that you have a reason for doing what you do. All anyone else can offers are examples of what they do. If you can from a physiological perspective manipulate the length of steel braded teflon # 3 commensurate with the length of solid line that you would replace to the point that you can noticeably induce expansion resulting in performance degradation with detectable negative lever modulation feedback then you sir are a true physical specimen with super human senses. I however would not be able to do that there for I chose to run what I saw everyone else that i presumed knew what they were doing run and it worked out pretty well. No i do not run the ABS pump on the bikes however my first replacement lines did incorporate the pump and I can tell you that the braking was excellent. Regardless, carry on my good sir. The build is coming along nicely.
Click to expand...

Hello Endodoc,

I did not thought as you are trying to convince me of anything. This thread is for me to learn something new (from you and other experience members here) and to facilitate a discussion.

Of course 2 people can't agree on everything, you have your reasoning and experience and I have my reasoning and my experience. and of course, I agree with you, most human foot will not notice that much a differences.
But since you are from aerospace background, and you always aim for the ultimate, I am sure with the right equipment that "micron size expansion" can be measured.
Rigid pipe will always have less expansion then braided line, and most rigid pipe will normally be cheaper then good quality braided line as you point out, those are facts.

I also knew that you are one of the innovator and revolutionary thinker, and involve in innovative bleeding edge industry where you are not a follower and will not always follow the common way of doing things.

Thanks again Endodoc
 
What BMW is so elegantly trying to say is that I don’t follow the rules an probably ruin a lot of stuff by not doing so. Unfortunately, all true as the boxes of “what could have been’s” pile up in the shop. Hey it’s only money, well and time, and frustration oh never mind. Leave the stock lines alone LOL
 
Also hopefully you can ding that switch pack that incorporates the cap with the master. That way you don’t have that extra piece. I use the CNC 3 button, staggered hole pattern to fit the pump body. Super clean
 
You wont see any rigid lines on any SBK or GP bikes like Ed said its just for the factories to cut costs. Brad at Motion SBK can make you any length line or any fittings you want and most of all the T fitting for the front line is stainless steel not aluminum like most companies use. A lot of us are not running ABS and has been removed from the harness and the bike period. Best thing you can do as a start is leave the ABS pump, plug the 4 ports with banjos.




BMW Alpina said:
The stainless steel swivel fitting will help with orientation, but will this custom lines from Motion SBK came with some rigid piping at area around the swing arm pivot and close to the exhaust?
The stock lines is part braided line part rigid piping, and a rigid piping will always have better "expansion resistance" compare to flexible line, not to mention heat resistant near the rear exhaust manifold.
I think there are some more rigid lines between the rear master cylinder to the ABS unit, and since there is a long travel from the rear master cylinder to the ABS then back to the rear caliper,
I think the rigid piping will prevent the expansion effect. Maybe if you bypass the ABS thus braided line direct from the rear MC to the caliper which means much shorter braided line and less expansion.

I was about to replace my entire brake line with the Frentubo Carbon braided line until I notice the rigid piping from the stock brake line.

Note: I used to be the exclusive distributor of Goodridge (source it from their UK Exeter office) for my country of origin from 2000 to 2005, and I remember this is part of the knowledge they shared with me.
Also, this is what my experience from modifying my car, the flexible braided line is only for the last connection where there is suspension movement and flexibility is needed.
If you replace all those rigid piping on a car with all flexible braided line, your brake will become mushy due to expansion.
Click to expand...
 
Keith wont have anymore problems with clearance once he gets his reservoir bracket kit in a day or so......

picture.php


I am running of 3 more sets right now if anyone needs a kit.
 
Mick1976 said:
Yeah Ed is correct used to be lots of guys on here but it has changed over time this board has turned into a .... show. I am actually that guy that offered and still offer the GP master and RCS clutch master carbon switch setup. Also if running the GP or RCS masters the standard reservoir brackets will not work so you will need the carbon reservoir bracket kit for both clutch/brake.

picture.php


picture.php
Click to expand...

Hi Mick,

Do you supply these brackets? They look super tidy! I've just fitted a 19RCS on my 959, and the bracket that came with it don't work with the 959. How would I get go about getting a hold of a set of these?

Cheers,

Dane
 
Mick can make just about anything in carbon. I’m sure he has a solution for whatever you need. Great quality stuff
 
danec1985 said:
Hi Mick,

Hey Dane yes I make the carbon resorvoir brackets so I can make you a set so I will shoot over a pm right now.

Do you supply these brackets? They look super tidy! I've just fitted a 19RCS on my 959, and the bracket that came with it don't work with the 959. How would I get go about getting a hold of a set of these?

Cheers,

Dane
Click to expand...
 
Love the cf bracket from Mick. Works perfect, looks better, weighs less. Wish I could eliminate my abs module, but since its not possible, does anyone make nylon or aluminum bolt plugs for the ports on it?
 
BMW Alpina said:
Thank You for the information BTrain5489.
Do you know the purpose of the switch on the clutch master? are they for the DQS or are they to retard engine timing when you press the clutch or just for safety when starting the bike while in gear?
oh, also, when you install the brake master (with switch), do you need to splice and solder the wire or was the connector just plug and play?
Thanks again
Click to expand...
The switch on the left is also for the cilinder activation from stationary
when you stop and pull the clutch , one cilinder switches of , if you slowly release the clutch
you can hear it firing up again
 
Zundapp said:
The switch on the left is also for the cilinder activation from stationary
when you stop and pull the clutch , one cilinder switches of , if you slowly release the clutch
you can hear it firing up again
Click to expand...

Thanks Zundapp,
so this is quite critical function then... I will pay attention to make sure mine works when I replace the clutch master cylinder.
Thanks again.
 
Hmmm, anyone have any hiccups with the cylinder activation/deactivation? Good point on the switch.
 

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